[blindkid] [Bulk] Social behavior

Erin Teply eteply at cfl.rr.com
Wed Oct 26 20:47:25 UTC 2011


Hi Dave, I think you are right.  I see it this way with my son.  He does the eye-poking when he is idle or when he is seeking some sort of stimulation while listening to something.  The other issues (his maybe-non-acceptable movements) are strictly relevant to him getting excited.  I think both will need to be addressed separately.

Thank you to everyone who has commented -- excellent information and discussion!  Thanks so much!  


On Oct 26, 2011, at 4:13 PM, David Andrews wrote:

> Arielle:
> 
> I agree with you -- but I also think that there is one more aspect to so-called blindisms, particularly eye poking.  And ... I am a 58 year old totally blind adult, so been there and all that.  I think there is an aspect of self stimulation to some of these behaviors, particularly eye poking.  Sighted persons receive a great deal of their stimulation visually, and without that channel we may turn to other things to not get bored etc.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 10:47 AM 10/26/2011, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have been blind from birth, have had lifelong struggles with
>> eye-poking and rocking issues, and am also a doctoral student in
>> psychology, so I have some pretty strong opinions about this topic. I
>> think it is important to remember that sighted children (and adults)
>> typically move their hands or bodies to some extent when they get
>> excited, too. I've also heard rumors that sighted people sometimes
>> fidget when they're bored. Research shows that all human beings are
>> hard-wired to express their feelings through movement, and sighted
>> infants often begin gesturing before they can talk to express their
>> needs and wants. The only difference between blind and sighted
>> children in this regard is that blind children have not learned what
>> kinds of movements other people around them use to express their
>> emotions. I think blind children come up with behaviors like rocking,
>> straightening their arms or swinging their heads in order to act on
>> their instinctual drive to express their emotions through movement.
>> Behaviors like rocking are simple and don't need to be learned by
>> watching others do them, so they serve as good replacements for hand
>> gestures etc. The only reason rocking, etc. are seen as such taboo
>> behaviors is because they are not movements shared by the general
>> public, and they are movements also seen in people with neurological
>> conditions like autism. This makes sense, given that one of the major
>> signs of autism is difficulty mimicking other people's nonverbal
>> behaviors. If children cannot learn how others around them gesture and
>> move (either because they can't see or because their brains don't
>> process the information), they come up with movements of their own.
>> I believe that just telling a child to stop their movements without
>> offering any alternatives is unfair, unrealistic and largely
>> ineffective. Imagine being told you had to stand completely still and
>> could never move your hands during a conversation, ever. Regardless of
>> how much they want to fit in, blind children will struggle to stop
>> these behaviors unless they are given alternatives that are functional
>> for expressing their emotions through movement. I think the first step
>> is to find out what movements are "typical" and then attempt to teach
>> them to your child. What do sighted kids do when they get excited?
>> Bored? Tired? Maybe even looking at an acting textbook might be
>> helpful. Then, maybe you or the OT can help your child learn some
>> simple movements to do when they are happy, tired, etc. Have your
>> child practice like it's homework and give rewards when they learn the
>> gestures or movements and start using them appropriately. I really
>> really wish someone had done that with me when I was a kid, because it
>> is very hard as an adult to try to break the bad habits and
>> simultaneously learn to gesture and move in natural-looking ways.
>> The other thing that's important here is to teach self-control and
>> appropriateness in different situations. I don't think expecting your
>> child to never engage in an unusual mannerism ever again is realistic.
>> But you can certainly ask that they stay still in certain situations
>> (i.e. in public) with the understanding they can do whatever they want
>> with their bodies when they are at home or by themselves (as long as
>> it's safe of course). This kind of self-regulation has been an
>> important part of my own growth as I have learned to be very conscious
>> of how I am carrying myself when in a professional or social setting,
>> with the knowledge that I can let myself go in other settings.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/26/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
>> > I think it is important to remember that social pressure that most sighted
>> > kids will perceive when other kids stop and stare have no real effect when a
>> > blind child is unaware of others' reactions. At age 5, I'm not certain it is
>> > time to make a big issue of that, but at my daughter's age (9) we do make a
>> > point of letting her know when she is making a spectacle of herself,
>> > especially if it begins to spiral out of control.
>> >
>> > I would certainly focus a lot more on gentle redirection to alternative
>> > behaviors first before offering too many reasons for a child to stress over
>> > what other think, especially at age five. Also, from what I can gather,
>> > schools for the blind are not the best places to expect "blindisms" to be
>> > addressed. They are so common there that I think many of the schools pretty
>> > much ignore most of them. As might make sense, mainstream behavior is much
>> > more expected in the mainstream schools and classes.
>> >
>> > Expect less correction of blindisms in isolated classrooms as well. Even if
>> > it is in the IEP, it is unlikely to become a priority in that environment,
>> > partly because many other kids in the room are less likely to have the same
>> > social reactions to these behaviors.
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Carly B wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think replacement behaviors may really be the key here, especially ones
>> >> that are not really noticeable. When I have told my son to stop, it has
>> >> had
>> >> no effect whatsoever, in fact, it's made him stubborn and defensive about
>> >> it. I think sometimes kids just have to have their own "buy in" like you
>> >> did, Brandy. I really think my own son may need to have his own "real
>> >> consequences." Since we plan to remove him from the Academy in the next
>> >> year
>> >> or two, and he will be mainstreamed, that may be the time when that
>> >> happens.
>> >>
>> >> :) Carolynn
>> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Brandy W <branlw at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes you can tell him to stop, and you need to!!! It is perfect to find
>> >>> replacement behaviors, but he must not do this. It already looks weird in
>> >>> kinder, and just imagine what it will look like in years when he is a
>> >>> tween,
>> >>> and everyone is laughing, and worse yet when he is in college? I speak
>> >>> from
>> >>> experience. I eye poked, sometimes gently rocked, and I sucked my little
>> >>> finger. Non of this was OK, and no one stopped me. Not even at the blind
>> >>> school. It was horrible and hard to break! It took me some very good
>> >>> friends, real consequences, and a lot of persistence to stop these
>> >>> things. I
>> >>> still sometimes go backwards to these behaviors when I'm sick or
>> >>> stressed. I
>> >>> wish someone had stopped me when I was 5 for sure!
>> >>>
>> >>> Some replacement behaviors are providing a trampoline for an appropriate
>> >>> place to bounce, Give him the words and appropriate gestures for when he
>> >>> is
>> >>> excited, give him appropriate swinging and rocking chairs to get this out
>> >>> appropriately.
>> >>>
>> >>> So you can and do need to make him stop!
>> >>>
>> >>> Bran
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "When we treat children's play as seriously as it deserves, we are
>> >>> helping
>> >>> them feel the joy that's to be found in the creative spirit. It's the
>> >>> things
>> >>> we play with and the people who help us play that make a great difference
>> >>> in
>> >>> our lives."
>> >>> - Fred Rogers
>> >>>
>> >>> Brandy Wojcik
>> >>> Discovery Toys Educational Consultant and Team Leader
>> >>> www.playtoachieve.com
>> >>> (512) 689-5045
>> >>>
>> >>> Looking for team members nation wide!
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erin Teply" <eteply at cfl.rr.com>
>> >>> To: "(for parents of blind children) NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List" <
>> >>> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:51 AM
>> >>> Subject: [Bulk] [blindkid] Social behavior
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello everyone,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am some questions around social behavior (at least I think that is the
>> >>>> best description!).  My son Max, is 5 and in mainstream kindergarten.
>> >>>> He
>> >>>> has some 'blindisms' as I call them or some different social behaviors
>> >>>> when
>> >>>> he gets excited.  He tends to rock his body back and forth and sort of
>> >>>> do a
>> >>>> strange 'arm-straightener' thing when he gets excited or really wants to
>> >>>> say
>> >>>> something.  We see this at home in just these cases and I believe the
>> >>>> same
>> >>>> at school, but because he has to 'sit still' so much more at school, I
>> >>>> think
>> >>>> the behaviors are more pronounced and/or more often.  I have a meeting
>> >>>> tomorrow with his OT and mobility teacher on what we can do to replace
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> minimize these behaviors.  As we all know, you simply can't tell the
>> >>>> child
>> >>>> to *stop* this because then they think, "well then what?". How have some
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> you dealt with this type of thing?  I think the main concern from his OT
>> >>>> that this is socially not acceptable.  Any thoughts are appreciated.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you,
>> >>>> Erin Teply
> 
> 
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