[blindkid] [Bulk] Social behavior

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Wed Oct 26 21:53:01 UTC 2011


Actually, some blind kids rock back and forth, which is another form 
of self stimulation.  Luckily I never did  that -- too busy poking my 
eyes I guess (lol).


Dave

At 03:47 PM 10/26/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Dave, I think you are right.  I see it this way with my son.  He 
>does the eye-poking when he is idle or when he is seeking some sort 
>of stimulation while listening to something.  The other issues (his 
>maybe-non-acceptable movements) are strictly relevant to him getting 
>excited.  I think both will need to be addressed separately.
>
>Thank you to everyone who has commented -- excellent information and 
>discussion!  Thanks so much!
>
>
>On Oct 26, 2011, at 4:13 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
> > Arielle:
> >
> > I agree with you -- but I also think that there is one more 
> aspect to so-called blindisms, particularly eye poking.  And ... I 
> am a 58 year old totally blind adult, so been there and all 
> that.  I think there is an aspect of self stimulation to some of 
> these behaviors, particularly eye poking.  Sighted persons receive 
> a great deal of their stimulation visually, and without that 
> channel we may turn to other things to not get bored etc.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 10:47 AM 10/26/2011, you wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >> I have been blind from birth, have had lifelong struggles with
> >> eye-poking and rocking issues, and am also a doctoral student in
> >> psychology, so I have some pretty strong opinions about this topic. I
> >> think it is important to remember that sighted children (and adults)
> >> typically move their hands or bodies to some extent when they get
> >> excited, too. I've also heard rumors that sighted people sometimes
> >> fidget when they're bored. Research shows that all human beings are
> >> hard-wired to express their feelings through movement, and sighted
> >> infants often begin gesturing before they can talk to express their
> >> needs and wants. The only difference between blind and sighted
> >> children in this regard is that blind children have not learned what
> >> kinds of movements other people around them use to express their
> >> emotions. I think blind children come up with behaviors like rocking,
> >> straightening their arms or swinging their heads in order to act on
> >> their instinctual drive to express their emotions through movement.
> >> Behaviors like rocking are simple and don't need to be learned by
> >> watching others do them, so they serve as good replacements for hand
> >> gestures etc. The only reason rocking, etc. are seen as such taboo
> >> behaviors is because they are not movements shared by the general
> >> public, and they are movements also seen in people with neurological
> >> conditions like autism. This makes sense, given that one of the major
> >> signs of autism is difficulty mimicking other people's nonverbal
> >> behaviors. If children cannot learn how others around them gesture and
> >> move (either because they can't see or because their brains don't
> >> process the information), they come up with movements of their own.
> >> I believe that just telling a child to stop their movements without
> >> offering any alternatives is unfair, unrealistic and largely
> >> ineffective. Imagine being told you had to stand completely still and
> >> could never move your hands during a conversation, ever. Regardless of
> >> how much they want to fit in, blind children will struggle to stop
> >> these behaviors unless they are given alternatives that are functional
> >> for expressing their emotions through movement. I think the first step
> >> is to find out what movements are "typical" and then attempt to teach
> >> them to your child. What do sighted kids do when they get excited?
> >> Bored? Tired? Maybe even looking at an acting textbook might be
> >> helpful. Then, maybe you or the OT can help your child learn some
> >> simple movements to do when they are happy, tired, etc. Have your
> >> child practice like it's homework and give rewards when they learn the
> >> gestures or movements and start using them appropriately. I really
> >> really wish someone had done that with me when I was a kid, because it
> >> is very hard as an adult to try to break the bad habits and
> >> simultaneously learn to gesture and move in natural-looking ways.
> >> The other thing that's important here is to teach self-control and
> >> appropriateness in different situations. I don't think expecting your
> >> child to never engage in an unusual mannerism ever again is realistic.
> >> But you can certainly ask that they stay still in certain situations
> >> (i.e. in public) with the understanding they can do whatever they want
> >> with their bodies when they are at home or by themselves (as long as
> >> it's safe of course). This kind of self-regulation has been an
> >> important part of my own growth as I have learned to be very conscious
> >> of how I am carrying myself when in a professional or social setting,
> >> with the knowledge that I can let myself go in other settings.
> >> Best,
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/26/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
> >> > I think it is important to remember that social pressure that 
> most sighted
> >> > kids will perceive when other kids stop and stare have no real 
> effect when a
> >> > blind child is unaware of others' reactions. At age 5, I'm not 
> certain it is
> >> > time to make a big issue of that, but at my daughter's age (9) 
> we do make a
> >> > point of letting her know when she is making a spectacle of herself,
> >> > especially if it begins to spiral out of control.
> >> >
> >> > I would certainly focus a lot more on gentle redirection to alternative
> >> > behaviors first before offering too many reasons for a child 
> to stress over
> >> > what other think, especially at age five. Also, from what I can gather,
> >> > schools for the blind are not the best places to expect 
> "blindisms" to be
> >> > addressed. They are so common there that I think many of the 
> schools pretty
> >> > much ignore most of them. As might make sense, mainstream 
> behavior is much
> >> > more expected in the mainstream schools and classes.
> >> >
> >> > Expect less correction of blindisms in isolated classrooms as 
> well. Even if
> >> > it is in the IEP, it is unlikely to become a priority in that 
> environment,
> >> > partly because many other kids in the room are less likely to 
> have the same
> >> > social reactions to these behaviors.
> >> >
> >> > Richard
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Carly B wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I think replacement behaviors may really be the key here, 
> especially ones
> >> >> that are not really noticeable. When I have told my son to stop, it has
> >> >> had
> >> >> no effect whatsoever, in fact, it's made him stubborn and 
> defensive about
> >> >> it. I think sometimes kids just have to have their own "buy 
> in" like you
> >> >> did, Brandy. I really think my own son may need to have his own "real
> >> >> consequences." Since we plan to remove him from the Academy in the next
> >> >> year
> >> >> or two, and he will be mainstreamed, that may be the time when that
> >> >> happens.
> >> >>
> >> >> :) Carolynn
> >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Brandy W <branlw at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Yes you can tell him to stop, and you need to!!! It is perfect to find
> >> >>> replacement behaviors, but he must not do this. It already 
> looks weird in
> >> >>> kinder, and just imagine what it will look like in years when he is a
> >> >>> tween,
> >> >>> and everyone is laughing, and worse yet when he is in college? I speak
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> experience. I eye poked, sometimes gently rocked, and I 
> sucked my little
> >> >>> finger. Non of this was OK, and no one stopped me. Not even 
> at the blind
> >> >>> school. It was horrible and hard to break! It took me some very good
> >> >>> friends, real consequences, and a lot of persistence to stop these
> >> >>> things. I
> >> >>> still sometimes go backwards to these behaviors when I'm sick or
> >> >>> stressed. I
> >> >>> wish someone had stopped me when I was 5 for sure!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Some replacement behaviors are providing a trampoline for an 
> appropriate
> >> >>> place to bounce, Give him the words and appropriate gestures 
> for when he
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> excited, give him appropriate swinging and rocking chairs to 
> get this out
> >> >>> appropriately.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So you can and do need to make him stop!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bran
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "When we treat children's play as seriously as it deserves, we are
> >> >>> helping
> >> >>> them feel the joy that's to be found in the creative spirit. It's the
> >> >>> things
> >> >>> we play with and the people who help us play that make a 
> great difference
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> our lives."
> >> >>> - Fred Rogers
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Brandy Wojcik
> >> >>> Discovery Toys Educational Consultant and Team Leader
> >> >>> www.playtoachieve.com
> >> >>> (512) 689-5045
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Looking for team members nation wide!
> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erin Teply" <eteply at cfl.rr.com>
> >> >>> To: "(for parents of blind children) NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List" <
> >> >>> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:51 AM
> >> >>> Subject: [Bulk] [blindkid] Social behavior
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hello everyone,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I am some questions around social behavior (at least I 
> think that is the
> >> >>>> best description!).  My son Max, is 5 and in mainstream kindergarten.
> >> >>>> He
> >> >>>> has some 'blindisms' as I call them or some different 
> social behaviors
> >> >>>> when
> >> >>>> he gets excited.  He tends to rock his body back and forth 
> and sort of
> >> >>>> do a
> >> >>>> strange 'arm-straightener' thing when he gets excited or 
> really wants to
> >> >>>> say
> >> >>>> something.  We see this at home in just these cases and I believe the
> >> >>>> same
> >> >>>> at school, but because he has to 'sit still' so much more 
> at school, I
> >> >>>> think
> >> >>>> the behaviors are more pronounced and/or more often.  I 
> have a meeting
> >> >>>> tomorrow with his OT and mobility teacher on what we can do 
> to replace
> >> >>>> or
> >> >>>> minimize these behaviors.  As we all know, you simply can't tell the
> >> >>>> child
> >> >>>> to *stop* this because then they think, "well then what?". 
> How have some
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> you dealt with this type of thing?  I think the main 
> concern from his OT
> >> >>>> that this is socially not acceptable.  Any thoughts are appreciated.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thank you,
> >> >>>> Erin Teply





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