[blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille ReadingRates??

Arielle Silverman arielle71 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 20 18:54:13 UTC 2012


Wow. Expecting a Braille reader to read half as fast as their sighted
peers at any grade level is ridiculous. The fact this is coming from
an authority, a school for the blind, is just plain unacceptable. The
end.
Arielle - blind adult who reads Braille at 300 wpm because she has
been reading Braille since age 4 and was always expected to read at
the same level as her sighted peers.

On 3/20/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello chantel,
> While I agree that knowing where the Texas School For The Blind came up with
> their nonsensical reading rates might be useful, you have already described
> how you believe the next meeting will go with the school personnel. I agree
> with you. It comes down to an argument like "we choose these reading
> standards and you don't think we've made a good choice. But, we're the
> experts and so are the TX people. So, while we acknowledge your displeasure,
> this is what we're going to do." You can argue with them back and forth for
> months, not sign the IEP - so they'll just keep using the old one - question
> their basis for the decision, which makes the TVI feel threatened and
> dislike you, and on it goes...for months and months. Meanwhile, nothing
> changes in the expectations or reading education being given to your son.
>
> Or, you can try what I've started doing whenever I go as parent advocate to
> IEP meetings. I take some videos of blind children doing whatever it is that
> the school district people are saying can't be done by blind children. They
> can't argue when they see several different blind children doing it. I
> usually introduce the videos by saying something like "now I'd like to share
> something that I'm sure everyone will be really please to see. I know that
> we all want what's best for (name child) and this should enable us to agree
> on what that best will look like for the next year." It's hard for teachers
> to say "well, we don't think that doing what these children are doing is
> best." Because they want each child to reach the highest outcomes possible.
> Their problem is that they don't believe that blind children, or adults, can
> reach outcomes on pa with the sighted. Videos usually work to raise their
> expectations. It's usually easier to get goals changed after the entire IEP
> team has seen that it's perfectly possible for your son to attain them. It
> takes away from the mistique and the "expertism" ascribed to the TVI by the
> rest of the team. She is then in the position of having to convince the
> whole team why, when everyone just saw it was possible, it won't be possible
> for your son.
>
> Denise may already have some videos of her students reading braille at
> age-appropriate rates. Or, if not, I'm sure she can direct you to some. I
> think this will smooth the way for lifting their expectations of your son.
> As an aside, I would also start having your son read at home for a set
> amount of time every night with a view to increasing his reading speed.
> Rewards are a great motivational tool as his age.
>
> Keep us posted and please share the links to any great videos you track
> down. there are so many parents fighting this fight all over the country. I
> think we need to petition The Texas School For The Blind to recant on these
> reading standards because they sure aren't realistic. I'm an adult blind
> reader and I read in excess of 400 words a minute. At age eight I was
> reading above my sighted peers; I know this because when tested at age six
> my mum reports that I was reading at 9-years and 8 months as determined by
> the sighted reading test norms, which they used because they didn't have any
> for braille readers. Ahhh! How things change and how they stay the same.
>
> Best regards,
> Heather
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chantel Alberhasky
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:57 AM
> To: Dr. Denise M Robinson ; Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind
> children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille
> ReadingRates??
>
> Denise, I share your thoughts re Braille reading rates and will insist on
> using the print reading rates as the norm for Drake.  Again, I am fortunate
> to have a state law which I believe requires Drake's fluency rate to be the
> comparable to his sighted peers print reading rate.
>
>
> At last year's IEP meeting we touched upon the fluency rate and I already
> know the administration's position on reading rates which is Braille is a
> slow reading medium, you can't use norms for print reading rates and my
> expectations are too high.   Drake's TVBI is great but I think she also
> subscribes to the belief that Braille is a slow reading medium - she just
> started with the district this past year and used to work for the university
> teaching future TVBI.
>
> Based upon the evaluation I think the  district is going to argue the norms
> sighted by the Texas School for the Blind is the norms they are going to
> follow. So I would like to know the Texas School for the Blind's authority
> for determining its norm rates. Did it reply upon other studies?  If so,
> which ones?  If it did its own study, how do I find it?  Is its study
> peer-reviewed?     These are questions I can pose to the district but I was
> hoping someone would have some insight re the assessment and reading rates.
>
> Thanks.
> Chantel
>
>
> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
> 419 Boonville Avenue
> Springfield, MO 65806
> 417.865.4444
>
> The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
> tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
> asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or byyou
> may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as itgoes from
> me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in ourcommunication
> may intercept our communications by improperly accessingyour computer or my
> computer or even some computer unconnected to eitherof us which the e-mail
> passed through. I am communicating to you viae-mail because you have
> consented to receive communications via thismedium. If you change your mind
> and want future communications to besent in a different fashion, please let
> me know AT ONCE.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
> To: Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com>; "Blind Kid Mailing List,
> (for parents of blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille Reading
> Rates??
>
>
> Chantel
>
> Basically you have researchers looking at what kids are doing and then they
> figure out the norms for what is actually going on--then they come up with
> reading rates--some research--
> http://www.braille.org/papers/jvib0696/vb960312.htm
> However, reading rates of course depend on the expectations surrounding the
> child. If everyone expects this child to read slowly---in general they will.
> If however, the same standards are applied to a blind child as sighted
> child, you will see the blind child reach the same goals. Of course these
> expectations must be met with a highly qualified teacher of the blind who
> can teach to the standards that are set for everyone else. Depending on the
> teacher's skills typically depends on how far the child will go or not go.
>
> I use the same standards with my students as everyone else. If I get them
> and can start them at the same age as everyone else is learning the skills,
> they can stay with them or exceed them--esp when it comes to technology. If
> I get them later, it takes a lot more work, but if before middle school,
> they can reach these standards also typically by the time they graduate. If
> above middle school it becomes a lot harder, basically because there is so
> much bad thought in their own heads about what they can do. If you can get
> them over that and they work really hard they can get close and some surpass
> any low expectations that were set long ago.
>
> The longer you wait...the harder it is to change those negative thoughts
> about blind skills and achievement. You are right in fighting the bad
> thought. Tell them you wish for your child to follow Jerry Johns
> norms--which are the standards the sighted kids use, versus the low norms of
> that assessment kit THEY created. Many people have created their own.
>
> See link for Jerry Johns literacy norms and let them know these are the
> norms you want them to follow---the leading literacy expert in the field:
> http://www.yourtechvision.com/content/standards-reading-speed
>
> Denise
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Chantel Alberhasky
> <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com> wrote:
>
> I just received the Braille skills evaluation report for my 8 year old son.
> Drake is in 2nd grade.  His oral Braille reading rate for second grade level
> is 50 WPM,  36 WPM for 3rd grade level and 34 for 4th trade level. The
> report goes on to say that Drake is "on track to achieve the norms as
> identified by the Texas School for the Blind (TSBVI) Assessment Kit Braille
> Reading Rates."   The Texas School for the Blind's braille reading rate for
> 3rd grade is only 51 WPM and for college it is only 115 WPM!  For print
> reading a 3rd grader should be reading 110 WPM.  So college Braille readers
> should be reading at the same level as a third grade student?!
>>
>>
>>Can anyone give me information on the Texas School for the Blind Assessment
>>
>>Kit Braille Reading Rates?  How did they arrive at these rates as being the
>>
>>"norm" for the various grade levels?   I know there hasn't been any recent
>>studies that would indicate the reading rates for Braille so how did Texas
>>School for the Blind come up with these very low rates?
>>
>>I will of course be arguing these rates are much too low.  I also have a
>>great state law I will rely upon which requires schools to provide
>>instruction so that a child can communicate effectively and efficiently in
>>Braille at a level commensurate with his sighted peers of comparable grade
>>level and intellectual functioning.   To rely upon the Texas School for the
>>
>>Blind reading rates would be inconsistent with our state law.
>>
>>In any event, any information anyone can give me regarding TX School for
>>the Blind Assessment Braille Reading rates would be appreciated.
>>
>>Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>>419 Boonville Avenue
>>Springfield, MO 65806
>>417.865.4444
>>
>>The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
>>tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
>>asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or
>>byyou may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as
>>itgoes from me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in
>>ourcommunication may intercept our communications by improperly
>>accessingyour computer or my computer or even some computer unconnected to
>>eitherof us which the e-mail passed through. I am communicating to you
>>viae-mail because you have consented to receive communications via
>>thismedium. If you change your mind and want future communications to
>>besent in a different fashion, please let me know AT ONCE.
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
>>To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:51 AM
>>Subject: Re: [blindkid] IQ testing
>>
>>The WWJIII is now in a braille format to access blind children and is
>>adapted appropriately--You can get it from APH
>>Denise
>>
>>On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Patricia <bcsarah.fan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As a blind aspiring counsellor who has my Bachelors in psychology, I
>>> am familiar with these IQ tests and have always been curious, has
>>> there been any attempt to make these tests accessible to blind and
>>> visually impaired children? Or is the answer just "they're not, and
>>> that's the way it is." I don't expect a definitive answer on this as
>>> I'm sure no one here would know, but it's always been one of those
>>> things that I've been curious about.
>>>
>>> Patricia
>>>
>>> On 3/19/12, Tom and Deb OConnor <toc6642 at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Is a vision impairment a valid reason not to give a child a "complete"
>>> > Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-fourth edition?  The final
>>> > conclusion was that it would be inappropriate?  Given 5 subtests only.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for any information on this.
>>> >
>>> > Tom & Debbie O'Connor
>>> > toc6642 at charter.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > blindkid mailing list
>>> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > blindkid:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/bcsarah.fan%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindkid mailing list
>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindkid:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Denise
>>
>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
>>CEO, TechVision, LLC
>>Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
>>509-674-1853
>>
>>Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
>>keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
>>
>>"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>>doing it." --Chinese Proverb
>>
>>Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
>>slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
>>imagination.
>>--Albert Einstein
>>
>>It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
>>--Walt Disney
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindkid mailing list
>>blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindkid:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/chantel%40alberhaskylaw.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindkid mailing list
>>blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindkid:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Denise
>
> Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
> CEO, TechVision, LLC
> Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
> 509-674-1853
>
> Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
> keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
>
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it." --Chinese Proverb
>
> Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are
> incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful
> beyond imagination.
> --Albert Einstein
>
> It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
> --Walt Disney
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>




More information about the BlindKid mailing list