[blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille ReadingRates??

Arielle Silverman arielle71 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 20 19:21:53 UTC 2012


I'd be willing to help start a petition.
Arielle

On 3/20/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow. Expecting a Braille reader to read half as fast as their sighted
> peers at any grade level is ridiculous. The fact this is coming from
> an authority, a school for the blind, is just plain unacceptable. The
> end.
> Arielle - blind adult who reads Braille at 300 wpm because she has
> been reading Braille since age 4 and was always expected to read at
> the same level as her sighted peers.
>
> On 3/20/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello chantel,
>> While I agree that knowing where the Texas School For The Blind came up
>> with
>> their nonsensical reading rates might be useful, you have already
>> described
>> how you believe the next meeting will go with the school personnel. I
>> agree
>> with you. It comes down to an argument like "we choose these reading
>> standards and you don't think we've made a good choice. But, we're the
>> experts and so are the TX people. So, while we acknowledge your
>> displeasure,
>> this is what we're going to do." You can argue with them back and forth
>> for
>> months, not sign the IEP - so they'll just keep using the old one -
>> question
>> their basis for the decision, which makes the TVI feel threatened and
>> dislike you, and on it goes...for months and months. Meanwhile, nothing
>> changes in the expectations or reading education being given to your son.
>>
>> Or, you can try what I've started doing whenever I go as parent advocate
>> to
>> IEP meetings. I take some videos of blind children doing whatever it is
>> that
>> the school district people are saying can't be done by blind children.
>> They
>> can't argue when they see several different blind children doing it. I
>> usually introduce the videos by saying something like "now I'd like to
>> share
>> something that I'm sure everyone will be really please to see. I know
>> that
>> we all want what's best for (name child) and this should enable us to
>> agree
>> on what that best will look like for the next year." It's hard for
>> teachers
>> to say "well, we don't think that doing what these children are doing is
>> best." Because they want each child to reach the highest outcomes
>> possible.
>> Their problem is that they don't believe that blind children, or adults,
>> can
>> reach outcomes on pa with the sighted. Videos usually work to raise their
>> expectations. It's usually easier to get goals changed after the entire
>> IEP
>> team has seen that it's perfectly possible for your son to attain them.
>> It
>> takes away from the mistique and the "expertism" ascribed to the TVI by
>> the
>> rest of the team. She is then in the position of having to convince the
>> whole team why, when everyone just saw it was possible, it won't be
>> possible
>> for your son.
>>
>> Denise may already have some videos of her students reading braille at
>> age-appropriate rates. Or, if not, I'm sure she can direct you to some. I
>> think this will smooth the way for lifting their expectations of your
>> son.
>> As an aside, I would also start having your son read at home for a set
>> amount of time every night with a view to increasing his reading speed.
>> Rewards are a great motivational tool as his age.
>>
>> Keep us posted and please share the links to any great videos you track
>> down. there are so many parents fighting this fight all over the country.
>> I
>> think we need to petition The Texas School For The Blind to recant on
>> these
>> reading standards because they sure aren't realistic. I'm an adult blind
>> reader and I read in excess of 400 words a minute. At age eight I was
>> reading above my sighted peers; I know this because when tested at age
>> six
>> my mum reports that I was reading at 9-years and 8 months as determined
>> by
>> the sighted reading test norms, which they used because they didn't have
>> any
>> for braille readers. Ahhh! How things change and how they stay the same.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Heather
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chantel Alberhasky
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:57 AM
>> To: Dr. Denise M Robinson ; Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind
>> children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille
>> ReadingRates??
>>
>> Denise, I share your thoughts re Braille reading rates and will insist on
>> using the print reading rates as the norm for Drake.  Again, I am
>> fortunate
>> to have a state law which I believe requires Drake's fluency rate to be
>> the
>> comparable to his sighted peers print reading rate.
>>
>>
>> At last year's IEP meeting we touched upon the fluency rate and I already
>> know the administration's position on reading rates which is Braille is a
>> slow reading medium, you can't use norms for print reading rates and my
>> expectations are too high.   Drake's TVBI is great but I think she also
>> subscribes to the belief that Braille is a slow reading medium - she just
>> started with the district this past year and used to work for the
>> university
>> teaching future TVBI.
>>
>> Based upon the evaluation I think the  district is going to argue the
>> norms
>> sighted by the Texas School for the Blind is the norms they are going to
>> follow. So I would like to know the Texas School for the Blind's
>> authority
>> for determining its norm rates. Did it reply upon other studies?  If so,
>> which ones?  If it did its own study, how do I find it?  Is its study
>> peer-reviewed?     These are questions I can pose to the district but I
>> was
>> hoping someone would have some insight re the assessment and reading
>> rates.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Chantel
>>
>>
>> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>> 419 Boonville Avenue
>> Springfield, MO 65806
>> 417.865.4444
>>
>> The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
>> tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
>> asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or
>> byyou
>> may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as itgoes
>> from
>> me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in
>> ourcommunication
>> may intercept our communications by improperly accessingyour computer or
>> my
>> computer or even some computer unconnected to eitherof us which the
>> e-mail
>> passed through. I am communicating to you viae-mail because you have
>> consented to receive communications via thismedium. If you change your
>> mind
>> and want future communications to besent in a different fashion, please
>> let
>> me know AT ONCE.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
>> To: Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com>; "Blind Kid Mailing
>> List,
>> (for parents of blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille Reading
>> Rates??
>>
>>
>> Chantel
>>
>> Basically you have researchers looking at what kids are doing and then
>> they
>> figure out the norms for what is actually going on--then they come up
>> with
>> reading rates--some research--
>> http://www.braille.org/papers/jvib0696/vb960312.htm
>> However, reading rates of course depend on the expectations surrounding
>> the
>> child. If everyone expects this child to read slowly---in general they
>> will.
>> If however, the same standards are applied to a blind child as sighted
>> child, you will see the blind child reach the same goals. Of course these
>> expectations must be met with a highly qualified teacher of the blind who
>> can teach to the standards that are set for everyone else. Depending on
>> the
>> teacher's skills typically depends on how far the child will go or not
>> go.
>>
>> I use the same standards with my students as everyone else. If I get them
>> and can start them at the same age as everyone else is learning the
>> skills,
>> they can stay with them or exceed them--esp when it comes to technology.
>> If
>> I get them later, it takes a lot more work, but if before middle school,
>> they can reach these standards also typically by the time they graduate.
>> If
>> above middle school it becomes a lot harder, basically because there is
>> so
>> much bad thought in their own heads about what they can do. If you can
>> get
>> them over that and they work really hard they can get close and some
>> surpass
>> any low expectations that were set long ago.
>>
>> The longer you wait...the harder it is to change those negative thoughts
>> about blind skills and achievement. You are right in fighting the bad
>> thought. Tell them you wish for your child to follow Jerry Johns
>> norms--which are the standards the sighted kids use, versus the low norms
>> of
>> that assessment kit THEY created. Many people have created their own.
>>
>> See link for Jerry Johns literacy norms and let them know these are the
>> norms you want them to follow---the leading literacy expert in the field:
>> http://www.yourtechvision.com/content/standards-reading-speed
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Chantel Alberhasky
>> <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just received the Braille skills evaluation report for my 8 year old
>> son.
>> Drake is in 2nd grade.  His oral Braille reading rate for second grade
>> level
>> is 50 WPM,  36 WPM for 3rd grade level and 34 for 4th trade level. The
>> report goes on to say that Drake is "on track to achieve the norms as
>> identified by the Texas School for the Blind (TSBVI) Assessment Kit
>> Braille
>> Reading Rates."   The Texas School for the Blind's braille reading rate
>> for
>> 3rd grade is only 51 WPM and for college it is only 115 WPM!  For print
>> reading a 3rd grader should be reading 110 WPM.  So college Braille
>> readers
>> should be reading at the same level as a third grade student?!
>>>
>>>
>>>Can anyone give me information on the Texas School for the Blind
>>> Assessment
>>>
>>>Kit Braille Reading Rates?  How did they arrive at these rates as being
>>> the
>>>
>>>"norm" for the various grade levels?   I know there hasn't been any
>>> recent
>>>studies that would indicate the reading rates for Braille so how did
>>> Texas
>>>School for the Blind come up with these very low rates?
>>>
>>>I will of course be arguing these rates are much too low.  I also have a
>>>great state law I will rely upon which requires schools to provide
>>>instruction so that a child can communicate effectively and efficiently
>>> in
>>>Braille at a level commensurate with his sighted peers of comparable
>>> grade
>>>level and intellectual functioning.   To rely upon the Texas School for
>>> the
>>>
>>>Blind reading rates would be inconsistent with our state law.
>>>
>>>In any event, any information anyone can give me regarding TX School for
>>>the Blind Assessment Braille Reading rates would be appreciated.
>>>
>>>Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>>>419 Boonville Avenue
>>>Springfield, MO 65806
>>>417.865.4444
>>>
>>>The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
>>>tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
>>>asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or
>>>byyou may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as
>>>itgoes from me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in
>>>ourcommunication may intercept our communications by improperly
>>>accessingyour computer or my computer or even some computer unconnected
>>> to
>>>eitherof us which the e-mail passed through. I am communicating to you
>>>viae-mail because you have consented to receive communications via
>>>thismedium. If you change your mind and want future communications to
>>>besent in a different fashion, please let me know AT ONCE.
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
>>>To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:51 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindkid] IQ testing
>>>
>>>The WWJIII is now in a braille format to access blind children and is
>>>adapted appropriately--You can get it from APH
>>>Denise
>>>
>>>On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Patricia <bcsarah.fan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a blind aspiring counsellor who has my Bachelors in psychology, I
>>>> am familiar with these IQ tests and have always been curious, has
>>>> there been any attempt to make these tests accessible to blind and
>>>> visually impaired children? Or is the answer just "they're not, and
>>>> that's the way it is." I don't expect a definitive answer on this as
>>>> I'm sure no one here would know, but it's always been one of those
>>>> things that I've been curious about.
>>>>
>>>> Patricia
>>>>
>>>> On 3/19/12, Tom and Deb OConnor <toc6642 at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Is a vision impairment a valid reason not to give a child a
>>>> > "complete"
>>>> > Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-fourth edition?  The final
>>>> > conclusion was that it would be inappropriate?  Given 5 subtests
>>>> > only.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for any information on this.
>>>> >
>>>> > Tom & Debbie O'Connor
>>>> > toc6642 at charter.net
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > blindkid mailing list
>>>> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>> > blindkid:
>>>> >
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/bcsarah.fan%40gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Denise
>>>
>>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
>>>CEO, TechVision, LLC
>>>Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
>>>509-674-1853
>>>
>>>Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
>>>keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
>>>
>>>"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>>doing it." --Chinese Proverb
>>>
>>>Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are
>>> incredibly
>>>slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
>>>imagination.
>>>--Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
>>>--Walt Disney
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindkid mailing list
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>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindkid:
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>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Denise
>>
>> Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
>> CEO, TechVision, LLC
>> Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
>> 509-674-1853
>>
>> Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
>> keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
>>
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it." --Chinese Proverb
>>
>> Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are
>> incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful
>> beyond imagination.
>> --Albert Einstein
>>
>> It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
>> --Walt Disney
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindkid:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>> blindkid:
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>>
>




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