[blindkid] Was: To Sign or not To Sign - NOW IEPs

Carrie Gilmer carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
Mon Feb 25 19:34:23 UTC 2013


I am well aware of the purpose of the IDEA and for that matter civil rights and anti-discrimination law...my point is that ultimately i work and hope for a day when this is not needed, and in the end that would be best. We need equal pay law because employers discriminate this way, and the law has both purpose and positive outcome for change. but we work for the elimination of the problem...the law in this case is an "in the meantime". If one only focuses on implementing the law and does not change the root of the problem which created the need, you will still have  lawbreakers and opposition and misunderstanding. A forced implementation of an IEP can and often does take YEARS and come at great financial cost in the meantime...and in the end many of us have experience that even if won and following a plan to the letter...laws and IEP's may not change attitude. As one small example when my son complained Braille was hard early on, the teacher sighed and said well your IEP and your parents say we have to do this. i would not wish my child had a math teacher who did not believe in Math.
There are also many cases, an extreme example I was a part of, maybe the most for the point...A 15 year old girl with cognitive impairment and short term memory loss...for 3 years tying her shoe was an IEP goal. They passed the goal on because it had not been met. All the hours spent on that from age 12 to 15. good grief. and the whole year to year mentality...IEP only for one year's goals is also a problem and a barrier to real function when educators get bogged down in that mentality.
I am not at all saying not to use anything particular now braille or JAWS because it might not be provided later...I am saying as you have done...that what is guaranteed individually through an IEP MAY WELL NOT BE post high school ed and certainly under an employer...and the danger is to rely on that guarantee and so prepare for Plan Z.
:) Carrie
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com> wrote:

> The point of the IEP is to prepare a student for further education, employment and for independent living.    Yes there are IEPs that do not prepare a student for further education, employment or independent living.   The problem isn't the IDEA, or that we have IEPs, the problem is the administrators and TVIs who fail our children by not providing them with the tools they need.
> You are correct that having the best IEP is no guarantee the child will get services promised in the document.  However, there is a mechanism in which parents can activate to force the school to implement the IEP and get their attorney fees in the process.   To be clear an IEP does provide "equal treatment."  It is not a discrimination law.  It is an educational law which guarantees children with educational disabilities (covered under of 13 eligibility categories) receives specialized instruction so they can receive educational benefit. 
> I would suspect your beef (and Heather's) is not with the IDEA but rather with school districts who fail our children.  I could never argue a blind child is better off without an IEP, since the IDEA affords many legal protections to our children they wouldn't otherwise have.  And yes when they graduate high school, only Section 504 of the Rehabilitation act of 1973 will follow them.  But I am certainly not going to not demand textbooks in Braille for my child now simply because in braille textbooks are not required to be provided at University.   I will, however, make sure he is knowledgeable in JAWS and Zoomtext (and he is working on it) and can use both a PC and a MAC (and he can, better than I!) and he knows how to convert documents, etc so he can access the curriculum when he is in college.
> BTW, I switched my practice special education law back in 2007 after a grueling fight with our school district to obtain an IEP for our middle son and after a grueling fight to obtain appropriate services.  Our middle son has significant learning disabilities and our school district was failing him.  We have had an easier time with our youngest son's IEPs due to, among other things, a competent blindness skills coordinator and because the school district knows I know the law and I am not afraid to use it. 
> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
> 419 Boonville Avenue
> Springfield, MO 65806
> 417.865.4444
> 
> The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys 
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> 
> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Was: To Sign or not To Sign - NOW IEPs
> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
> 
> Ugh, a P.S. :)
> I would also like to point out i have seen it not rarely where IEP's are over relied on in the sense of after k-12 is over...that is, basically both the parents and child presuming and so used to an INDIVIDUALIZED program in a negative not appropriate dependent way that the leap is made to consider an IEP ( Individualized EMPLOYMENT program is DUE them...and sometimes citing the ADA as the means to get that) there is no such thing either in employment or life. And while you may have a legal right to accommodation with an employer in general there is no specific right guaranteed to any individual for a specific accommodation. you may wish JAWS but the employer wishes to provide another screen reading "brand" and you may well have to accept that for example. you may be used to a BrailleNote but they wish to provide a Braille Sense...and the choice is not under the law yours...etc. You may wish a PC but the office uses a Mac, you may have to adjust. you may
> wish a Braillewriter but they provide a scribe...a scribe is what you may have to take. Included is this is also a tendency to sometimes "over-accomodate" individually that leaves students ill prepared for an unaccomodating non-individualized world...such as needing extra time on test or assignment completion....while the IEP can and is a guarantee of equal treatment, services many times and also leads to higher expectations and goals toward function...it is also often a tool misused that creates dependency, low expectation, stuck in a rut behaviors and outcomes.
> 
> Carrie
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Feb 25, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Chantel,
>> I do not speak for Heather...or would not even attempt a clarification for her..unnecessary...but will state why I agree with her IEP points...knowing Heather as I do, and her vast experience...I took it not literally as much as an idea of what "should be"...we (Heather and I)both well know it is a legal contract and the need for it...but I would argue the actual need is because the education of blind children has been largely unmet...or at least not equivalent or equal to a sighted child's overall (in every way)..and the actual educational needs have been largely misunderstood...or not a priority or not believed in....and unfortunately that legal power and individual clarification is needed to ensure...even though in reality "on paper" is NO guarantee it is done. i would also argue that many many children who do not have a disability could benefit from a personal program with goals...overall our system, leaves much to be improved. i would also submit
> I have witnessed many times people bogged down in small small bits of progress...the whole IEP program kind of taking over....like in a teaching to test kind of way. and it does indeed to not a rare classroom teacher mean at first thought "ugh a high need child"..."what do I have to do?"...and not in a good way...in the end i think it overall a poor comparison as it is so complicated to the issue of signs...I also think other tools, like a cane a very poor comparison. we have plenty of data and evidence to suggest the need for other tools,and how pros vastly outweigh any con.
>> 
>> For me it is quite simple with the sign. Does the child NEED "super" i.e. above average or normal Protection? then they should not be unsupervised. they need supervision, not a sign. if the answer to uber protection is no, then no sign is needed. people drown in front of human lifeguards sometimes...and sometimes that is due to caregivers relaxing supervision and relying on a lifeguard. Ask any professional lifeguard, they certainly have saved lives, but they would tell you not to rely on them...a sign may prevent...but wHen, where, with which driver will it and with which driver will it not? How much less a sign can protect than a human being there to intervene and vigilantly watch out? 
>> Carrie
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Heather questions why a blind child should have an IEP  states "that it would be simpler to say 'do whatever you have to do to ensure that this blind child can do what his same age peers can do'".   I couldn't disagree more although I am sure many schools would be right there with you because that would mean parents and their children would have no legal rights and school districts would be off the legal hook. 
>>> 
>>> Heather says "Blind children just need to learn what their sighted classmates are learning and, if they need a nonvisual technique to accomplish it, the teacher of blind students or parents (and parents friends/mentors who are
>>> blind adults) should show the child how to do it. I just don't get why it all needs to be written out." 
>>> It is very important to realize that an IEP is a contract, an enforceable contract. If it isn't written down, then it is not part of the contract and thus not enforceable. When a child is eligible for special education services they are bestowed  many rights they wouldn't have if they did not receive special education (FAPE, stay put, compensatory education, parent participation, manifestation determination hearings, etc).   A school has no obligation to provide Braille,  assistive technology instruction, etc unless the child qualifies for special education.  Parent struggle to get these things now under the IDEA, I can't imagine what it would be like if they didn't have the IDEA as
>>> mechanism to enforce their child's right to an education.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Heather states  "The IEP perpetuates, in the mind of the classroom teacher, that the blind child needs all this incredible amount of additional, special 'stuff.'"    I don't think my son's teacher thinks this because of Drake's IEP. If he does think this, it is probably because Drake has a CCTV on his desk, a braille note, manipulatives for math, an abacus and a cubby for his braille textbooks.   In any event, having an IEP doesn't say to the teacher a child is less than, or less capable.  It simply says a child has to have specialized instruction and certain accommodations to receive educational benefit.     
>>> Heather states "IEPs are considered necessary to ensure that an under informed, underfunded public school monolith
>>> doesn't under-educate blind children. . There are lots of reasons, I'd be happy to chat about them when we next catch up, why IEPs for blind children are so often not the helpful documents we wish they were, and can, in the hands of some professionals, actually be a hindrance to some blind children."IEPs for any child - no matter the category in which they have found eligible - are necessary because school districts were not educating children who learn differently.  It is the square peg and round hole analogy.  In any event, I doubt you need to tell any parents how IEPs are often so pathetic that they provide little to no educational benefit to our children.  As you know, parents are (hopefully) relentless advocates for the children, fighting their school districts for Braille, fighting for enough Braille instruction, for assistive technology, O&M services, etc.  And once you get the
>>> services, you have to keep a watchful eye to ensure the school is implementing the IEP.  It is exhausting.   
>>> If parents have to be so vigilant and active with the law on their side, imagine what it would be like if they discarded their child's rights (removed them from special education)?  I shudder to think.
>>> 
>>> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>>> 419 Boonville Avenue
>>> Springfield, MO 65806
>>> 417.865.4444
>>> 
>>> The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys 
>>> to notify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not a
>>> secure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or 
>>> by you may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as it
>>> goes from me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in our
>>> communication may intercept our communications by improperly accessing
>>> your computer or my computer or even some computer unconnected to 
>>> either of us which the e-mail passed through. I am communicating to you via
>>> e-mail because you have consented to receive communications via this
>>> medium. If you change your mind and want future communications to be
>>> sent in a different fashion, please let me know AT ONCE.
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