[blindkid] Tactile Graphics

Wed Jul 17 19:04:55 UTC 2013

No argument about the wisdom of research, but the best coarse (at least for now) is probably to include both, especially if this is not customized transcription for a particular student with a known bias / advantage using one system over the other.

I suspect the results of such a study would support the concept that, much like with the sighted having some who learn better from descriptions and some who prefer more visual solutions, so it would be with the blind, even if the "visual" portion is actually a tactile graphic.

Even if I am wrong, one other thought is the notion that blind students without exposure to various types of graphics will end up in a work environment years down the road and have insufficient information about what their sighted counterparts are discussing with things like charts, graphs, and illustrations. Expose these kids to the charts, and it it helps them grasp the chart functions better. Only while you expose them, describe them as thoroughly as possible too...

On Jul 17, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm definitely not in support of omitting any
> content just because it is supposedly too "visual" for a blind student
> to handle. I also fully understand the significance of tactile
> graphics for standardized test performance, and suspect my own math
> SAT and GRE scores were suppressed to an extent by my own difficulties
> interpreting tactile diagrams on the tests.
> What I am advocating is that we re-examine how content can be
> presented in the most accessible way possible. What is most accessible
> as a tactile diagram, and what is most accessible as a verbal
> description? We need to figure this out with rigorous research and
> feedback from blind learners, and ideally, this investigation would be
> used to develop standardized test items too. I hate to see "visual"
> problems simply dropped from tests, but I also think that sometimes a
> tactile rendering of the print graphic isn't the most accessible
> representation either, at least not for all blind learners.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 7/17/13, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
>> Every time a see a quiz or test come home with "omit" written where someone
>> thought a question was "too visual", this is the exact sort of concern I
>> have. It is much like the "is your child age-appropriate" concept from other
>> discussions we have all had many times.
>> 
>> In this case, is what is being taught through graphics age/stage
>> appropriate. But the question isn't if our KIDS are ready, rather it asks if
>> the TRANSCRIBING is ready. If not now, when? What is going to happen so that
>> our kids all have the same shot to get the same score on the same
>> standardized tests?...
>> 
>> Delaying access to these graphics makes things harder for our kids down the
>> road, and why would I believe that suddenly "next year" they are all going
>> to suddenly be adapted? I'm not buying it...
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Darcirae Hooks <draehooks at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I was just thinking, that Caiden still has to pass National and state
>>> exams to demonstrate learning. Many of those tests have graphs and
>>> diagrams. So although he may not feel they benefit his learning bc he can
>>> pick the details out of text, he still has to master the same skills his
>>> peers are measured by.
>>> So it may not be beneficial to him but the national standards don't adapt
>>> for VI kids.
>>> 
>>> Darci
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 12:57, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I just asked my 10-year-old daughter-- she says tactile diagrams aren't
>>>> very useful to her, but I have seen some of the diagrams they produce for
>>>> her at school. They are crude, sloppy things most of the time. I have
>>>> made some better diagrams for her when producing a sort of "twin vision"
>>>> charts for presentations of hers-- things she will show to the class, so
>>>> she needs to be able to identify what the rest of the kids will observe
>>>> visually. She says mine are a bit better than from school, but the reason
>>>> is I spend a LOT of time making them-- too much time to be reasonable for
>>>> casual graphics from day-to-day.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, I don't have a great solution to offer. Kendra does underscore
>>>> that she wants the same charts and graphics available as the rest of the
>>>> kids have though, and I agree. So again, a notetaker textbook solution
>>>> would need some sort of embossed "tactile addendum" to accomplish that on
>>>> any level.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Agreed, if page numbers are missing and the instruction is to read
>>>>> specific pages or paragraphs that are numbered, this is a problem.
>>>>> although it can also be a problem with hard-copy Braille books if the
>>>>> page numbers given are print page numbers and such numbers aren't
>>>>> contained in the Braille book.
>>>>> I also agree about open-book quizzes, but maintain that for homework
>>>>> assignments and other "practice" work prior to a test, reading the
>>>>> whole chapter is, in my experience, a more effective learning method
>>>>> than merely skimming. Full reading takes a little more time on the
>>>>> front end, but requires less studying and re-reading later. I advise
>>>>> sighted students against skimming and highlighting in favor of fully
>>>>> reading all the content presented to them. In fact, I credit my
>>>>> inability to skim as a contributing factor to my academic success.
>>>>> Regarding tactile diagrams, this may be a controversial statement, but
>>>>> I personally have found almost all tactile diagrams to be either
>>>>> superfluous or useless, and would have preferred they be either
>>>>> omitted entirely or verbally described. It is very difficult to get
>>>>> the required degree of detail into a tactile diagram that you can get
>>>>> into a print one. Again this is just my opinion, and I am genuinely
>>>>> interested to know if other blind people find tactile diagrams to be
>>>>> worth the trouble of making them. It could also be different for folks
>>>>> who have had useful sight at one point in their lives (I never did). I
>>>>> also think there are a few times when tactile diagrams are beneficial,
>> 
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> 
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