[blindkid] Tactile Graphics

Wed Jul 17 23:17:59 UTC 2013

That sounds quite reasonable. It's too bad the standardized tests only
offer tactile graphs with no description.
Arielle

On 7/17/13, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
> No argument about the wisdom of research, but the best coarse (at least for
> now) is probably to include both, especially if this is not customized
> transcription for a particular student with a known bias / advantage using
> one system over the other.
>
> I suspect the results of such a study would support the concept that, much
> like with the sighted having some who learn better from descriptions and
> some who prefer more visual solutions, so it would be with the blind, even
> if the "visual" portion is actually a tactile graphic.
>
> Even if I am wrong, one other thought is the notion that blind students
> without exposure to various types of graphics will end up in a work
> environment years down the road and have insufficient information about what
> their sighted counterparts are discussing with things like charts, graphs,
> and illustrations. Expose these kids to the charts, and it it helps them
> grasp the chart functions better. Only while you expose them, describe them
> as thoroughly as possible too...
>
> On Jul 17, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just to be clear, I'm definitely not in support of omitting any
>> content just because it is supposedly too "visual" for a blind student
>> to handle. I also fully understand the significance of tactile
>> graphics for standardized test performance, and suspect my own math
>> SAT and GRE scores were suppressed to an extent by my own difficulties
>> interpreting tactile diagrams on the tests.
>> What I am advocating is that we re-examine how content can be
>> presented in the most accessible way possible. What is most accessible
>> as a tactile diagram, and what is most accessible as a verbal
>> description? We need to figure this out with rigorous research and
>> feedback from blind learners, and ideally, this investigation would be
>> used to develop standardized test items too. I hate to see "visual"
>> problems simply dropped from tests, but I also think that sometimes a
>> tactile rendering of the print graphic isn't the most accessible
>> representation either, at least not for all blind learners.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 7/17/13, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
>>> Every time a see a quiz or test come home with "omit" written where
>>> someone
>>> thought a question was "too visual", this is the exact sort of concern I
>>> have. It is much like the "is your child age-appropriate" concept from
>>> other
>>> discussions we have all had many times.
>>>
>>> In this case, is what is being taught through graphics age/stage
>>> appropriate. But the question isn't if our KIDS are ready, rather it asks
>>> if
>>> the TRANSCRIBING is ready. If not now, when? What is going to happen so
>>> that
>>> our kids all have the same shot to get the same score on the same
>>> standardized tests?...
>>>
>>> Delaying access to these graphics makes things harder for our kids down
>>> the
>>> road, and why would I believe that suddenly "next year" they are all
>>> going
>>> to suddenly be adapted? I'm not buying it...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Darcirae Hooks <draehooks at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was just thinking, that Caiden still has to pass National and state
>>>> exams to demonstrate learning. Many of those tests have graphs and
>>>> diagrams. So although he may not feel they benefit his learning bc he
>>>> can
>>>> pick the details out of text, he still has to master the same skills
>>>> his
>>>> peers are measured by.
>>>> So it may not be beneficial to him but the national standards don't
>>>> adapt
>>>> for VI kids.
>>>>
>>>> Darci
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 12:57, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just asked my 10-year-old daughter-- she says tactile diagrams
>>>>> aren't
>>>>> very useful to her, but I have seen some of the diagrams they produce
>>>>> for
>>>>> her at school. They are crude, sloppy things most of the time. I have
>>>>> made some better diagrams for her when producing a sort of "twin
>>>>> vision"
>>>>> charts for presentations of hers-- things she will show to the class,
>>>>> so
>>>>> she needs to be able to identify what the rest of the kids will
>>>>> observe
>>>>> visually. She says mine are a bit better than from school, but the
>>>>> reason
>>>>> is I spend a LOT of time making them-- too much time to be reasonable
>>>>> for
>>>>> casual graphics from day-to-day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I don't have a great solution to offer. Kendra does underscore
>>>>> that she wants the same charts and graphics available as the rest of
>>>>> the
>>>>> kids have though, and I agree. So again, a notetaker textbook solution
>>>>> would need some sort of embossed "tactile addendum" to accomplish that
>>>>> on
>>>>> any level.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, if page numbers are missing and the instruction is to read
>>>>>> specific pages or paragraphs that are numbered, this is a problem.
>>>>>> although it can also be a problem with hard-copy Braille books if the
>>>>>> page numbers given are print page numbers and such numbers aren't
>>>>>> contained in the Braille book.
>>>>>> I also agree about open-book quizzes, but maintain that for homework
>>>>>> assignments and other "practice" work prior to a test, reading the
>>>>>> whole chapter is, in my experience, a more effective learning method
>>>>>> than merely skimming. Full reading takes a little more time on the
>>>>>> front end, but requires less studying and re-reading later. I advise
>>>>>> sighted students against skimming and highlighting in favor of fully
>>>>>> reading all the content presented to them. In fact, I credit my
>>>>>> inability to skim as a contributing factor to my academic success.
>>>>>> Regarding tactile diagrams, this may be a controversial statement,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I personally have found almost all tactile diagrams to be either
>>>>>> superfluous or useless, and would have preferred they be either
>>>>>> omitted entirely or verbally described. It is very difficult to get
>>>>>> the required degree of detail into a tactile diagram that you can get
>>>>>> into a print one. Again this is just my opinion, and I am genuinely
>>>>>> interested to know if other blind people find tactile diagrams to be
>>>>>> worth the trouble of making them. It could also be different for
>>>>>> folks
>>>>>> who have had useful sight at one point in their lives (I never did).
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> also think there are a few times when tactile diagrams are
>>>>>> beneficial,
>>>
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