[blindlaw] Format Question

Dennis Clark dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net
Tue Dec 9 15:25:22 UTC 2008


Hi John,
Good to see you on the list.  I lost track of you after law school, and I am 
happy to see that the bar exam is behind you and that you are now in 
practice.  In your message you referred to another "ACB, let's all hold 
blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit."  I assume you 
are referring to the law suit against Target and that was actually launched 
with the support of the NFB and litigated by the Disability Rights Advocates 
in California.  I am personally pleased that the NFB did this, but I will 
admit I am aggressive on this point, and I have no problem forcing even 
private entities such as Target to be fully accessible to the blind.  The 
Target action can of course be argued as "hand holding," since there are 
alternatives for reading any website, such as using a reader, or the free 
market solution of simply shopping at a store which demonstrates that it 
wants the business of blind people by offering an accessible website, but I 
don't subscribe to that argument.  After all, everything is accessible if we 
use sighted assistance, but the accessibility alternative needs to be 
practical, not just plausible.

Forcing the Social Security Administration to provide accessible 
communications is an even easier philosophical question for me,  because 
unlike Target, the government is not a private entity.  There are many 
shopping alternatives available to us other than Target, but we are forced 
to interact with the Social Security Administration.

Also, the Social Security Administration use to telephone blind recipients 
to tell them about any problems or written communications being mailed to 
them, so we are not asking them to do something new or unworkable.  I know 
for a fact that this was true in 2004, because I represented someone before 
the Social Security Administration, and this procedure was already in place 
and was offered as part of the solution to my client's problem.

As a matter of law, and in addition to the 504 argument, I think a strong 
constitutional argument can be made as a matter of due process if it is the 
case that there is a property interest in Social Security payments.  It is 
likely that there is no property interest in SSI payments, but I am 
confident there is with SSDI and retirement payments since they result from 
money paid into Social Security by the recipient.

I look forward to hearing others thoughts on this matter.

All the best,

Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question


>I actually agree with you. I am more concerned about the lack of activity 
>regarding inaccessible web sites and the use of sucdh formats such as 
>captia and flash formats where image text is presented not bering readable 
>by screen readers.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>> I have no dispute that we should be able to receive communications in an
>> accessible format, but I am just not ready for another ACB, let's all 
>> hold
>> blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit.
>> Take care,
>> John
>>
>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>
>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>
>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:41 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>
>>
>> Its interesting because I recall many years ago that SSA used to say that
>> materials were available in Braille and people could receive 
>> communications
>> from them in Braille. This was back in the 60's when I was growing up. 
>> I'm
>> not sure what the extent of this was or if or when it was discontinued.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kathleen Hagen" <khagen12 at q.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>
>>
>>> John,  There is a certified class for blind social security recipients
>>> in
>>> which they are suing the SSA for accessible documents.  That does not 
>>> mean
>>
>>> that SSA is providing alternative formats for consumer's materials yet.
>>> And they probably won't for some time while they spend the taxpayers'
>>> money figuring out how to avoid it.  They do hire blind people and they
>>> provide general materials in braille at least.  But your friend 
>>> shouldn't
>>> expect to see her consumer-related material in alternative format any 
>>> time
>>
>>> soon.
>>> Kathy Hagen
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:09 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> i am on another NFB list and an individual seems to be under the
>>>> impression
>>>> that the Social Security Administration is violating her rights because
>>>> she
>>>> received the cost of living increase letter in the same format that
>>>> everyone
>>>> else receives the notice. Apparently this is just a standard letter in 
>>>> a
>>>> standard envelope. I am personally not aware of any law that requires 
>>>> an
>>>> entity to send "accessible" letters to everyone that might have a 
>>>> visual
>>>> disability. If this is the law, can someone point me to the section of
>>>> the
>>>> CFR that contains such a requirement?
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>>
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>
>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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