[blindlaw] Format Question

John joramsey at cox.net
Tue Dec 9 18:47:37 UTC 2008 

Hello Dennis,
As always, you argument is sound and I was not referring to the Target suit.
I am in full agreement with you on that issue. I was referring to the
accessible currency suit that is somewhere in the litigation chain. I think
that the government will eventually change the currency out of utility if
nothing else but arguing that the blind cannot even manage their own money
without it being made in different sizes or whatever else is a bit much for
me.
I am glad to be able to hear from you again Dennis you were a great help and
role model for me in law school.
Cordially,
John Ramsey

John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.

Gainesville, FL 32609

Phone: (352) 505-6642



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:25 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question


Hi John,
Good to see you on the list.  I lost track of you after law school, and I am

happy to see that the bar exam is behind you and that you are now in 
practice.  In your message you referred to another "ACB, let's all hold 
blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit."  I assume you 
are referring to the law suit against Target and that was actually launched 
with the support of the NFB and litigated by the Disability Rights Advocates

in California.  I am personally pleased that the NFB did this, but I will 
admit I am aggressive on this point, and I have no problem forcing even 
private entities such as Target to be fully accessible to the blind.  The 
Target action can of course be argued as "hand holding," since there are 
alternatives for reading any website, such as using a reader, or the free 
market solution of simply shopping at a store which demonstrates that it 
wants the business of blind people by offering an accessible website, but I 
don't subscribe to that argument.  After all, everything is accessible if we

use sighted assistance, but the accessibility alternative needs to be 
practical, not just plausible.

Forcing the Social Security Administration to provide accessible 
communications is an even easier philosophical question for me,  because 
unlike Target, the government is not a private entity.  There are many 
shopping alternatives available to us other than Target, but we are forced 
to interact with the Social Security Administration.

Also, the Social Security Administration use to telephone blind recipients 
to tell them about any problems or written communications being mailed to 
them, so we are not asking them to do something new or unworkable.  I know 
for a fact that this was true in 2004, because I represented someone before 
the Social Security Administration, and this procedure was already in place 
and was offered as part of the solution to my client's problem.

As a matter of law, and in addition to the 504 argument, I think a strong 
constitutional argument can be made as a matter of due process if it is the 
case that there is a property interest in Social Security payments.  It is 
likely that there is no property interest in SSI payments, but I am 
confident there is with SSDI and retirement payments since they result from 
money paid into Social Security by the recipient.

I look forward to hearing others thoughts on this matter.

All the best,

Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question


>I actually agree with you. I am more concerned about the lack of 
>activity
>regarding inaccessible web sites and the use of sucdh formats such as 
>captia and flash formats where image text is presented not bering readable 
>by screen readers.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>> I have no dispute that we should be able to receive communications in 
>> an accessible format, but I am just not ready for another ACB, let's 
>> all hold blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit.
>> Take care,
>> John
>>
>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>
>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>
>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:41 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>
>>
>> Its interesting because I recall many years ago that SSA used to say 
>> that materials were available in Braille and people could receive 
>> communications from them in Braille. This was back in the 60's when I 
>> was growing up. I'm
>> not sure what the extent of this was or if or when it was discontinued.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kathleen Hagen" <khagen12 at q.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>
>>
>>> John,  There is a certified class for blind social security 
>>> recipients in which they are suing the SSA for accessible documents.  
>>> That does not mean
>>
>>> that SSA is providing alternative formats for consumer's materials 
>>> yet. And they probably won't for some time while they spend the 
>>> taxpayers' money figuring out how to avoid it.  They do hire blind 
>>> people and they provide general materials in braille at least.  But 
>>> your friend shouldn't expect to see her consumer-related material in 
>>> alternative format any time
>>
>>> soon.
>>> Kathy Hagen
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:09 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> i am on another NFB list and an individual seems to be under the 
>>>> impression that the Social Security Administration is violating her 
>>>> rights because she
>>>> received the cost of living increase letter in the same format that
>>>> everyone
>>>> else receives the notice. Apparently this is just a standard letter in 
>>>> a
>>>> standard envelope. I am personally not aware of any law that requires 
>>>> an
>>>> entity to send "accessible" letters to everyone that might have a 
>>>> visual
>>>> disability. If this is the law, can someone point me to the section of
>>>> the
>>>> CFR that contains such a requirement?
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>>
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>
>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> al.net
>>
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