[blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel

Fri Dec 4 00:51:34 UTC 2009

That is very interesting.  How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large 
ship?

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Danielsen" <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel

> Interesting observations about Carnival.  When I went on the cruise that 
> was
> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille
> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus
> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will
> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there 
> was
> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the
> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours,
> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour
> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I 
> asked
> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate
> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people 
> have
> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an 
> opportunity
> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were
> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen
> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he 
> specifically
> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go.
> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB 
> folks
> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any 
> problems.
> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a 
> wimp.
> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In
> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the
> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage 
> folks
> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, 
> which
> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the 
> dolphin
> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up 
> to
> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they 
> were
> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable 
> impression
> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled
> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest 
> has
> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and
> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a 
> legal
> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we
> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am 
> not
> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise
> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I
> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not 
> contracting
> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference.
>
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>
> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at 
> least
> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice.  In 2007, they
> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our
> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers.  This was
> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers
> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers.  Carnival said that since
> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since 
> those
> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply.  We 
> tried
> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it.  But the scuba diving
> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we
> said.
> I wish we'd have fought harder.
>
> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in
> Braille or electronic formatting.  We followed up with Corporate, and by
> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to
> our liking in terms of materials.  They now will send you a CD with menus,
> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and
> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive
> for  you.
>
> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves 
> now.
> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling
> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship.  And we save a lot  of
> money in the process.
>
> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally 
> accessible
> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do.
> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are
> discriminating  against blind people - I bet they still are.
>
> Ronza
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> That's  good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines
> that had  issues regarding blind travelers several years ago.
> Chuck
> ----- Original  Message -----
> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." 
> <ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40  PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>
>
>> Chuck, I sell  cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival;
> they
>> have been  extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not.
>>
>>  I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly
> missed
>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>> Olusegun
>> Denver, Colorado
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw  mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol.
> com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4658 (20091203) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4659 (20091203) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 
19:36:00