[blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises

AZNOR99 at aol.com AZNOR99 at aol.com
Sat Dec 5 00:42:04 UTC 2009


We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill.  They do  
this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities.  It really  helped.
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes:

I went  exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival
Pride was  laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several 
decks,
but  there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so
that  you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were  
all
Brailled.

-----Original Message-----
From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf  Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM
To: NFBnet  Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel

That is very interesting.  How did you navigate around an  unfamiliar large
ship?

Steve
----- Original Message  -----
From: "Chris Danielsen" <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
To: "'NFBnet  Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday,  December 03, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel


> Interesting observations about Carnival.  When I  went on the cruise that 
> was
> organized by the NFB of Colorado  in March, we had all of the Braille
> materials in our cabins. Our  waiter was very nice about reading the menus
> each evening, even though  he didn't speak English that well. I will
> definitely ask for the menus  on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there 
> was
> any way to  get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that 
the
> next  time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking 
tours,
>  the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour
>  providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I 
>  asked
> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could  accommodate
> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that  blind people 
> have
> very few "access issues" and that he was  giving the providers an 
> opportunity
> to discriminate. I probed  him a little on whether he thought there were
> certain things a blind  guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen
> blind guests  participate in all kinds of activities, I think he 
>  specifically
> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to  discriminate. I let it go.
> None of the providers I did tours with gave  me or any of the other NFB 
> folks
> any problems, and I did not  hear from other NFB friends about any 
> problems.
> Of course,  the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a 
>  wimp.
> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went  fine. In
> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a  friend touch the
> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they  normally discourage 
> folks
> from touching the mouth.) He didn't  let us touch the nose or blowhole, 
> which
> are off limits. I  plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the 
> dolphin
>  encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up 
 
> to
> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and  I think they 
> were
> trying to do the right thing. I came away  with a mostly favorable 
> impression
> of the company, although  it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled
> guests even if they  really are doing it only to make sure that the guest 
> has
> a  good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and
>  while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a  
> legal
> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the  disability laws that 
we
> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a  foreign port of call I am 
> not
> sure U.S. law would "reach"  businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise
> lines only because their  ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I
> understand the law  correctly. Carnival could make a point of not 
> contracting
>  with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a  
difference.
>
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of  AZNOR99 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM
> To:  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>
> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers -  we try to go at 
> least
> once a year, and Carnival is our  cruiseline of choice.  In 2007, they
> refused to allow us to sign  up for a scuba diving excursion because of 
our
> blindness - they said  we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers.  This was
> absurd for all  the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers
> and most of  us are accomplished scuba divers.  Carnival said that since
> they  contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since 
>  those
> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not  apply.  We 
> tried
> to educate the cruise line, and I think  they got it.  But the scuba 
diving
> contract holder did not and  would not let us participate no matter what 
we
> said.
> I wish  we'd have fought harder.
>
> That same year, we had a lot of  trouble getting the onboard materials in
> Braille or electronic  formatting.  We followed up with Corporate, and by
> the time we  arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out 
to
> our  liking in terms of materials.  They now will send you a CD with  
menus,
> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state  room, and
> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on  a flash 
drive
> for  you.
>
> In terms of excursions,  we just always find an outside vender ourselves 
> now.
> We can  discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling
>  beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship.  And we save a lot   of
> money in the process.
>
> My point is that I'm not sure  if the cruiselines are all totally 
> accessible
> now, but I  think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do.
> Also, I  have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are
>  discriminating  against blind people - I bet they still  are.
>
> Ronza
>
>
>
> In a message dated  12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  writes:
>
> That's  good to know as I think that Carnival was  one of the cruise lines
> that had  issues regarding blind  travelers several years ago.
> Chuck
> ----- Original   Message -----
> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc."  
> <ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law  Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday,  December 02, 2009 2:40  PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>
>
>> Chuck, I sell  cruises amongst other  things I do; mostly on Carnival;
> they
>> have been   extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or  
not.
>>
>>  I have three groups going out in July and  August of 2010, narrowly
> missed
>> a chance to get a group  out to Alaska.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Olusegun
>> Denver, Colorado
>>
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>  al.net
>
>
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