[blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises

Steve P. Deeley stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
Sat Dec 5 14:30:54 UTC 2009


That is pretty good.  Those ships are pretty large and getting bigger.

Steve
----- Original Message ---
-- 
From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises


> We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill.  They do
> this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities.  It really 
> helped.
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes:
>
> I went  exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival
> Pride was  laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several
> decks,
> but  there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one 
> so
> that  you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were
> all
> Brailled.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf  Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM
> To: NFBnet  Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>
> That is very interesting.  How did you navigate around an  unfamiliar 
> large
> ship?
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message  -----
> From: "Chris Danielsen" <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
> To: "'NFBnet  Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday,  December 03, 2009 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>
>
>> Interesting observations about Carnival.  When I  went on the cruise that
>> was
>> organized by the NFB of Colorado  in March, we had all of the Braille
>> materials in our cabins. Our  waiter was very nice about reading the 
>> menus
>> each evening, even though  he didn't speak English that well. I will
>> definitely ask for the menus  on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there
>> was
>> any way to  get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that
> the
>> next  time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking
> tours,
>>  the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour
>>  providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I
>>  asked
>> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could 
>> accommodate
>> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that  blind people
>> have
>> very few "access issues" and that he was  giving the providers an
>> opportunity
>> to discriminate. I probed  him a little on whether he thought there were
>> certain things a blind  guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had 
>> seen
>> blind guests  participate in all kinds of activities, I think he
>>  specifically
>> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to  discriminate. I let it go.
>> None of the providers I did tours with gave  me or any of the other NFB
>> folks
>> any problems, and I did not  hear from other NFB friends about any
>> problems.
>> Of course,  the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a
>>  wimp.
>> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went  fine. In
>> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a  friend touch the
>> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they  normally discourage
>> folks
>> from touching the mouth.) He didn't  let us touch the nose or blowhole,
>> which
>> are off limits. I  plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the
>> dolphin
>>  encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up
>
>> to
>> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and  I think they
>> were
>> trying to do the right thing. I came away  with a mostly favorable
>> impression
>> of the company, although  it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled
>> guests even if they  really are doing it only to make sure that the guest
>> has
>> a  good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and
>>  while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a
>> legal
>> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the  disability laws that
> we
>> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a  foreign port of call I am
>> not
>> sure U.S. law would "reach"  businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise
>> lines only because their  ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I
>> understand the law  correctly. Carnival could make a point of not
>> contracting
>>  with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a
> difference.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> -----Original  Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> On
>> Behalf Of  AZNOR99 at aol.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM
>> To:  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>>
>> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers -  we try to go at
>> least
>> once a year, and Carnival is our  cruiseline of choice.  In 2007, they
>> refused to allow us to sign  up for a scuba diving excursion because of
> our
>> blindness - they said  we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers.  This was
>> absurd for all  the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers
>> and most of  us are accomplished scuba divers.  Carnival said that since
>> they  contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since
>>  those
>> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not  apply.  We
>> tried
>> to educate the cruise line, and I think  they got it.  But the scuba
> diving
>> contract holder did not and  would not let us participate no matter what
> we
>> said.
>> I wish  we'd have fought harder.
>>
>> That same year, we had a lot of  trouble getting the onboard materials in
>> Braille or electronic  formatting.  We followed up with Corporate, and by
>> the time we  arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out
> to
>> our  liking in terms of materials.  They now will send you a CD with
> menus,
>> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state  room, and
>> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on  a flash
> drive
>> for  you.
>>
>> In terms of excursions,  we just always find an outside vender ourselves
>> now.
>> We can  discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not 
>> feeling
>>  beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship.  And we save a lot   of
>> money in the process.
>>
>> My point is that I'm not sure  if the cruiselines are all totally
>> accessible
>> now, but I  think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do.
>> Also, I  have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are
>>  discriminating  against blind people - I bet they still  are.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated  12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  writes:
>>
>> That's  good to know as I think that Carnival was  one of the cruise 
>> lines
>> that had  issues regarding blind  travelers several years ago.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original   Message -----
>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc."
>> <ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law  Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday,  December 02, 2009 2:40  PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
>>
>>
>>> Chuck, I sell  cruises amongst other  things I do; mostly on Carnival;
>> they
>>> have been   extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or
> not.
>>>
>>>  I have three groups going out in July and  August of 2010, narrowly
>> missed
>>> a chance to get a group  out to Alaska.
>>>
>>>  Sincerely,
>>>  Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
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>>  al.net
>>
>>
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