[blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes

Patti Gregory-Chang pattichang at att.net
Sat Dec 5 13:46:09 UTC 2009


There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long 
as they are by the window.

P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes


> I'm not sure.  DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the
> planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might 
> know.
> However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being
> permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing.  That's usually how 
> the air
> carriers get us to give up our canes.  I lay my cane along the  fusalage 
> as
> well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that  either.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes:
>
> I prefer  to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask 
> the
> person near  the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned
> me down. I was  wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right 
> to
> have the cane at  my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg 
> or
> airline policy that  actually says that I do.
>
> Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie
>
> --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin
> <Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote:
>
>
> From:  Reyazuddin, Yasmin  <Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]  ADA and Air Travel / Canes
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06  AM
>
>
> Hi Millie,
> It has happened to me too. I have given them the  cane and they have 
> placed
> in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no  wall near me. They
> also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that  it does not 
> fall
> out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the  bathroom or 
> bring me
> soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to  9 hours.
>
> Yasmin Reyazuddin
> Information & Referral unit
> Department of Health & human services
> 401 Hungerford Drive (1st  floor)
> Rockville MD 20850
> Phone 240-777-1245 (info line)
> 240-777-1556 (personal line)
> Fax: 240-777-4636
> TTY: 240-777-1295
>
> Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm
>
> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu
>
> This message may contain protected health information or other 
> information
> that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient,
> please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of  this
> material.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau
> Sent:  Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing  List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes
>
> I have a  question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after
> I get on the  plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should 
> be
> permitted to  keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there
> something that I can  site that would get through to them? Or, am I 
> required to
> relinquish it? For  some reason it has been a problem more in the last two
> years then ever before.  I push it to a point just after making a scene. 
> smile.
> The thing that really  gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead
> bin and usually it falls  out as soon as the bin is opened and hits 
> someone on
> the head! Then the other  passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.
>
> Millie
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/2/09,  AZNOR99 at aol.com <AZNOR99 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> From:  AZNOR99 at aol.com <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air  Travel
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24  PM
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This is an interesting subject.  TSA is  generally not  responsible for
> providing a traveler with a guide as a  passenger goes  through screening.
> You
> can always request a  Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to
> accompany you;  however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to
> whether or not
> they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you  give 
> them
> a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or  passenger with a
> disability or elderly individual as a valid   reason.  You can request a
> Companion Pass from the airline at the  time of  check-in if you bring
> someone with
> you to drop you off - you  don't necessarily  have to let the airline know
> in advance that you  plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at
> the
> gate  when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in
> advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person  when 
> they
> obtain
> the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify  that  they know you or
> that
> you'd want them to pick you up.   Companions are  subject to the same
> screening and security measures  as passengers - valid State  or Federal
> ID, human
> and belonging  scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion
> Pass  issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are
> subject
> to the regs of the FAA.
>
> You can ask for a Guide at the airport as  well.  Generally airlines
> prefer
> you do this in advance, but  you can certainly choose to make such a
> request when you arrive at  the airport or land at your destination.  If
> you  don't
> let them  know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait
> longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting  for
> passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line  of wheel chairs
> and
> uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?   Well, they're each usually
> assigned to a particular person, and they  usually know who that person is
> ahead  of
> time.  Airlines, and  sometimes airports, are increasingly creating
> "Passenger Assistance  Departments," and escorting passengers is one of
> their
> primary  functions.
>
> There are some airports that utilize the airport police or  other airport
> staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.   Sometimes this is 
> because
>
> it is incredibly difficult to credential  staff for all areas of an
> airport,
> which such staff need to  possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport,
> and
> it would be  more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one 
> person
> for   all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.
>
> However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how  to
> interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you  place your cane 
> on
>
> the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position  you prior to entering the
> human
> scanner and reach out to hold your hands  to guide you forward.  Due to 
> the
> nature of the scanning equipment, a  passenger must not touch the scanning
> machine - it will not function  properly if anything comes into contact
> with
> it.  Some of us have had  the experience of bumping the machine and 
> setting
> it off in the  past.
>
> If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it  back to
> take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful,  once again,
> not
> to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will  likely set the machine
> off.
> Also, if your cane has metal - many of  us use metal tips - then it may
> cause the  scanner to go off,  necessitating the individual be referred to
> secondary  screening or  wanding.
>
> I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the  baggage
> scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I  walked through the
> scanner very slowly and did not set it off.   However, I was referred to
> secondary.  I always ask why I'm  being referred to Secondary (I'm in the
> business of
> wanting to know  if I'm being discriminated against because of my
> religion,
> national  origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always
> though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's
> random."
> I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the  secondary  screening
> area
> until someone retrieved my cane from the  conveyer belt.  He  got it for 
> me
> and asked, "Oh, is the reason  you moved so slowly through the  scanner
> because you are blind?" I  answered that it was, and he told me I was 
> free
> to go.
> I insisted on  going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to.
> Your  behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't
> know
> you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't  see
> well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious  behavior; 
> part
> of my
> job is to convey the difference between  suspicious behavior and cultural
>
> norms.  Needless to say I  insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted
> the chance to talk  the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable
> moment,
> and I  think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone
> might  move slowly through a machine.
>
> But for those that have  had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP
> checkpoints, there are a  couple of different avenues you can take.  If 
> you
> believe
> you  have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS
> Office
> for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work)  complaint.   Go
> to
> _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_  (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to
> download the form  or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_
> (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what  happened.  Please be
> sure to give as much
> detail as possible,   including the date, airport name, terminal number,
> time
> of day, the name  of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what
> happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a  TSO was
> rude
> or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment  card, or both.
> You
> can also contact your local  field office  after the fact to convey what
> happened.
>
> My message is substantially  longer than I intended, and I apologize for
> the
> length.
>
> Regards,
> Ronza
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated  12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  writes:
>
> I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA  provide needed
> assistence  upon my request. including through  security check points and
> picking up  baggage and assistence with  procuring ground transportation 
> or
> to
> a  waiting party. I have  found HSA and airport staff to be very
> cooperative.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From:  "stiehm.law"  <stiehm.law at juno.com>
> To:  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc:  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent:  Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and  Air Travel
>
>
>> In addition  to the airlines, I have recently  become curious as to what
> if
>> any,  accommodations for the TSA  makes with respect to disabled people
>> going  through security and  being picked up by somebody at the gate at
> the
>>  terminal at the  other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a
>>  blind  person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through
> security,
>> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a   non-ticketed
>> person.
>>
>> At the other end, is a   non-ticketed person permitted through security 
>> to
>> go to the gate  to  meet a blind person flying alone?
>>
>> If TSA does not  provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it
>> on  themselves to provide  this service?
>>
>> Has anybody had any  experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if
>> any,  voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it
>>  governed by regulation?
>>
>> Patrick  H. Stiehm
>> Stiehm  Law Office
>> Alexandria, VA 22309
>>  703-360-1089  (Voice)
>> 703-935-8266  (Fax)
>>
>>
>>
>> Tue,  1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr."
>>  <rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> writes:
>>> Off  the top of my  head, and without any new research, the only case
>>>   I
>>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of  airline  websites
>>> with
>>> respect to attempting to  make  reservations and ordering tickets on
>>>  line.
>>>
>>>  I also think that there are regulations on  the subject, especially
>>>  dealing
>>> with how  disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some
>>>  occasions
>>> mistreated).
>>>
>>>  I often  thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together
>>>  a short
>>> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel,  based upon
>>> experiences
>>> of NFB  members, to be  used as a reference guide for blind people who
>>> use   air
>>> travel.  Certainly things have changed since  911--some  changes for
>>> the good,
>>> and others not  so   good.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Respectfully,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Russell J.   Thomas, Jr.
>>>
>>> THOMAS &   ASSOCIATES
>>>
>>>   www.californiaemployersattorneys.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Orange County Office
>>>
>>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite   101
>>>
>>> Newport Beach, California   92660
>>>
>>> T: (949) 752-0101
>>>
>>>  F:  (949) 257-4756
>>>
>>> M: (949)   466-7238
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Beverly Hills   Office
>>>
>>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite   450
>>>
>>> Beverly Hills, California   90210
>>>
>>> T: (310) 461-3561
>>>
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>> From:   blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On
>>> Behalf Of James  Weisberg
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01  AM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>  Subject:  [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>>>
>>> Hi   Folks:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone on the  lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA
>>>  and  suits
>>> against air carriers for violations available for  quick  consult?
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  James W.  Weisberg, Esq.
>>>
>>> Law Office of J. William   Weisberg
>>>
>>> 299 South Patencio Road   #3
>>>
>>> Palm Springs,  California   92262
>>>
>>> V:   916.425.1010
>>>
>>>  F:   916.374.7667
>>>
>>>  E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com
>>>
>>> Admitted  in  Wisconsin
>>>
>>> Nationwide Practice Limited to  Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil
>>> Rights
>>>  Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes
>>>
>>> This message  contains  information which may be confidential and
>>>  privileged.
>>>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to  receive for the
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>>>
>>> This exchange of information  does not  create an attorney-client
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>>> Weisberg
>>> expects the recipient will   independently evaluate this information
>>> in
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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