[blindlaw] Accessible textbook legislation

Patrick H. Stiehm stiehm.law at juno.com
Tue Feb 3 22:51:22 UTC 2009


When you describe the books as being available in Daisy format, as being
required by law, which law do you mean? Is it a California state law or a
federal law? Even if it's only a California state law I would expect the
impact to be significant and even nationwide. California is so big that
anything that it requires usually has a national impact. Could you
elaborate please?

I was also interested in your comment above a copyright violation simply
because the books are cut up. I don't think that is correct. If I buy a
book, it is my property and I think I'm free to cut it up if I want. Or
in the alternative are you suggesting that scanning from text to voice
using Natural Reader is a copyright violation?  
If that is a violation aren't we further violating the copyright every
time Jaws reads copyrighted material on a web page? Although though it is
a more sophisticated program than Natural Reader, in its screen reading
function it is really doing essentially the same thing? I wonder if
there's any authority on the issue one way or the other.  If anybody on
the list is sufficiently familiar with copyright law that they are
comfortable expressing an opinion I would love to hear.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)

 
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:19:03 +0000 b75205 at gmail.com writes:
> Hold your horses, this is already done. Books are made today for the  
> 
> California market, they are made to be converted to daisy format. 
> Even  
> trade publishers are required to do this work. The books exist. By 
> the way  
> you are probably stealing copyrights by cutting up books like that.
> 
> The main problem with accessibility is that everyone thinks they 
> have to  
> reinvent the solution, when the problem is that your state IT people 
> do not  
> know what is out there, do not care and have no incentive to find 
> out what  
> is out there in the market. The re-inventing accessibility is a 
> serious  
> time waster and waster of resources. Forms designed by the state are 
>  
> extremely expensive and there really is no reason to waste this 
> money.
> 
> Choose publishers who have converted the books to daisy format.
> 
> Most of them do this now. It is required under the law. Also there 
> are  
> organizations that are converting books to daisy format there is on 
> in  
> Lousiana that is converting text books. By the way, these books are 
> free.
> 
> The major problem with text books are tests. Questions and answers. 
> That's  
> where you will find your problems. The solutions to tests are a bit 
> more  
> complex and way beyond the abilities of your state IT people who are 
>  
> cutting up books.
> 
> By the way you can make daisy formated documents using Word or 
> InDesign.
> 
> James Pepper
> 
> On Feb 3, 2009 10:21am, "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." 
> <rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
> > You might find the following URL helpful, although it appears that 
> the  
> site
> >
> >
> > may not have been updated for a while.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.tsbvi.edu/textbooks/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >
> >
> > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
> >
> >
> > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:27 PM
> >
> >
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >
> >
> > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >
> >
> > Subject: [blindlaw] Accessible textbook legislation
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in 
> Oregon
> >
> >
> > and I suggested to my state president that the problem of 
> accessible
> >
> >
> > textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best. He thinks he knows 
> who
> >
> >
> > I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
> >
> >
> > example of textbook legislation to work from. This is, I realize, 
> a
> >
> >
> > national problem. Some universities solve it well enough, but the
> >
> >
> > closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of 
> my
> >
> >
> > intervention.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards. 
> Is
> >
> >
> > there a good template out there from which I can work? I am told
> >
> >
> > California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
> >
> >
> > cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format. That might 
> be
> >
> >
> > a good starting place. *grin*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) 
> are
> >
> >
> > aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard 
> process
> >
> >
> > used here in Oregon anyway:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
> >
> >
> > Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several 
> blocks
> >
> >
> > to the DSO.
> >
> >
> > 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> >
> >
> > 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up 
> the
> >
> >
> > book.
> >
> >
> > 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> >
> >
> > 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 
> dpi.
> >
> >
> > 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
> >
> >
> > such as ABBYY FineReader.
> >
> >
> > 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> >
> >
> > 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, 
> in
> >
> >
> > theory.
> >
> >
> > 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
> >
> >
> > "natural" voice into mp3 files.
> >
> >
> > 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
> >
> >
> > textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
> >
> >
> > quarter.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because 
> books
> >
> >
> > are not available any sooner than that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read 
> versions
> >
> >
> > of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything 
> resembling
> >
> >
> > interpretations of diagrams. The printed books come back with 
> pages
> >
> >
> > missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed. I am told 
> that
> >
> >
> > my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
> >
> >
> > textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four 
> hours
> >
> >
> > produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
> >
> >
> > predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at 
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone 
> per
> >
> >
> > book. The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
> >
> >
> > books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
> >
> >
> > institutions I am aware of in my state.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, 
> but
> >
> >
> > the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by 
> students
> >
> >
> > because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve 
> waiting a
> >
> >
> > month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have 
> or
> >
> >
> > won't provide the textbook in question.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > And while some might argue that a blind student should be 
> responsible
> >
> >
> > for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does 
> not
> >
> >
> > often have that luxury. When you consider the reading volume
> >
> >
> > required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible. 
> Publishers
> >
> >
> > will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, 
> only
> >
> >
> > when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
> >
> >
> > purchased a book and not always even then.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This must stop. The publishers should be routinely providing
> >
> >
> > electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so 
> that
> >
> >
> > the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to 
> begin
> >
> >
> > doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a 
> clean,
> >
> >
> > correct, digital source.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make 
> sure
> >
> >
> > it stops here in Oregon. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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