[blindlaw] Accessible textbook legislation

Tue Feb 3 23:10:18 UTC 2009

See my post above about bookshare. A brief summary of copyright law
and it's transformation for blind people is at their legal page,
http://bookshare.org/about/legalInformation, but you can create
alternative formats of copyrighted nondramatic works for distribution
in blindness specific (I.E: Dazy) formats.

On 2/3/09, Patrick H. Stiehm <stiehm.law at juno.com> wrote:
> When you describe the books as being available in Daisy format, as being
> required by law, which law do you mean? Is it a California state law or a
> federal law? Even if it's only a California state law I would expect the
> impact to be significant and even nationwide. California is so big that
> anything that it requires usually has a national impact. Could you
> elaborate please?
>
> I was also interested in your comment above a copyright violation simply
> because the books are cut up. I don't think that is correct. If I buy a
> book, it is my property and I think I'm free to cut it up if I want. Or
> in the alternative are you suggesting that scanning from text to voice
> using Natural Reader is a copyright violation?
> If that is a violation aren't we further violating the copyright every
> time Jaws reads copyrighted material on a web page? Although though it is
> a more sophisticated program than Natural Reader, in its screen reading
> function it is really doing essentially the same thing? I wonder if
> there's any authority on the issue one way or the other.  If anybody on
> the list is sufficiently familiar with copyright law that they are
> comfortable expressing an opinion I would love to hear.
>
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
>
>
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:19:03 +0000 b75205 at gmail.com writes:
>> Hold your horses, this is already done. Books are made today for the
>>
>> California market, they are made to be converted to daisy format.
>> Even
>> trade publishers are required to do this work. The books exist. By
>> the way
>> you are probably stealing copyrights by cutting up books like that.
>>
>> The main problem with accessibility is that everyone thinks they
>> have to
>> reinvent the solution, when the problem is that your state IT people
>> do not
>> know what is out there, do not care and have no incentive to find
>> out what
>> is out there in the market. The re-inventing accessibility is a
>> serious
>> time waster and waster of resources. Forms designed by the state are
>>
>> extremely expensive and there really is no reason to waste this
>> money.
>>
>> Choose publishers who have converted the books to daisy format.
>>
>> Most of them do this now. It is required under the law. Also there
>> are
>> organizations that are converting books to daisy format there is on
>> in
>> Lousiana that is converting text books. By the way, these books are
>> free.
>>
>> The major problem with text books are tests. Questions and answers.
>> That's
>> where you will find your problems. The solutions to tests are a bit
>> more
>> complex and way beyond the abilities of your state IT people who are
>>
>> cutting up books.
>>
>> By the way you can make daisy formated documents using Word or
>> InDesign.
>>
>> James Pepper
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2009 10:21am, "Russell J. Thomas, Jr."
>> <rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > You might find the following URL helpful, although it appears that
>> the
>> site
>> >
>> >
>> > may not have been updated for a while.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > www.tsbvi.edu/textbooks/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >
>> >
>> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >
>> >
>> > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:27 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> >
>> >
>> > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: [blindlaw] Accessible textbook legislation
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in
>> Oregon
>> >
>> >
>> > and I suggested to my state president that the problem of
>> accessible
>> >
>> >
>> > textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best. He thinks he knows
>> who
>> >
>> >
>> > I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>> >
>> >
>> > example of textbook legislation to work from. This is, I realize,
>> a
>> >
>> >
>> > national problem. Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>> >
>> >
>> > closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of
>> my
>> >
>> >
>> > intervention.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.
>> Is
>> >
>> >
>> > there a good template out there from which I can work? I am told
>> >
>> >
>> > California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>> >
>> >
>> > cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format. That might
>> be
>> >
>> >
>> > a good starting place. *grin*
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd)
>> are
>> >
>> >
>> > aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard
>> process
>> >
>> >
>> > used here in Oregon anyway:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>> >
>> >
>> > Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several
>> blocks
>> >
>> >
>> > to the DSO.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up
>> the
>> >
>> >
>> > book.
>> >
>> >
>> > 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>> >
>> >
>> > 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150
>> dpi.
>> >
>> >
>> > 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>> >
>> >
>> > such as ABBYY FineReader.
>> >
>> >
>> > 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>> >
>> >
>> > 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit,
>> in
>> >
>> >
>> > theory.
>> >
>> >
>> > 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>> >
>> >
>> > "natural" voice into mp3 files.
>> >
>> >
>> > 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>> >
>> >
>> > textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>> >
>> >
>> > quarter.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because
>> books
>> >
>> >
>> > are not available any sooner than that.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read
>> versions
>> >
>> >
>> > of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything
>> resembling
>> >
>> >
>> > interpretations of diagrams. The printed books come back with
>> pages
>> >
>> >
>> > missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed. I am told
>> that
>> >
>> >
>> > my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>> >
>> >
>> > textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four
>> hours
>> >
>> >
>> > produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>> >
>> >
>> > predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone
>> per
>> >
>> >
>> > book. The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>> >
>> >
>> > books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>> >
>> >
>> > institutions I am aware of in my state.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts,
>> but
>> >
>> >
>> > the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by
>> students
>> >
>> >
>> > because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve
>> waiting a
>> >
>> >
>> > month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have
>> or
>> >
>> >
>> > won't provide the textbook in question.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > And while some might argue that a blind student should be
>> responsible
>> >
>> >
>> > for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does
>> not
>> >
>> >
>> > often have that luxury. When you consider the reading volume
>> >
>> >
>> > required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.
>> Publishers
>> >
>> >
>> > will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs,
>> only
>> >
>> >
>> > when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>> >
>> >
>> > purchased a book and not always even then.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This must stop. The publishers should be routinely providing
>> >
>> >
>> > electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so
>> that
>> >
>> >
>> > the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to
>> begin
>> >
>> >
>> > doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a
>> clean,
>> >
>> >
>> > correct, digital source.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make
>> sure
>> >
>> >
>> > it stops here in Oregon. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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