[blindlaw] Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008

Tue Jan 6 20:20:42 UTC 2009

I was about like him when I was six, myself, to the point of riding a 
two-wheel bike around a back yard, navigating around trees, fences, etc.  As 
my hearing loss slowly crept up on me, this gradually went away. 
Unfortunately, I only started any martial arts training at the tail end of 
my hearing "envelope," and didn't benefit it from when I really could/should 
have.  I don't remember doing the toes-up thing, but I may have walked on 
the insides of my feet, which is useful when it comes to certain types of 
walking and balancing.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philip Breeze" <pebreeze at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: 
[blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008


> Here is my brief encounter with such.  I have a congenitally blind 6 year
> old son.  He maneuvers using echolocation.  He can walk through a building
> without touching a single wall and navigate doorways and hallways.  He can
> walk outside and when he is approached by someone he can reach out and 
> touch
> them at perfect arms length.  He does the same with any solid surface he
> approaches.
>
> He started this when he was crawling at about 8 months of age.  He would 
> tap
> the floor and maneuver around obstacles like walls, chairs, counters, 
> etc..
> He gets better with age.  He deals with terrain elevation by scooting his
> feet with his toe in the air and his heel barely touching the floor.  He 
> can
> then detect any difference in surface texture, material, etc..  I feel at
> some point he will change his mode and right now I am trying to enforce 
> his
> cane usage but it is quite fascinating to watch him walk without it.  I am
> hoping that he will pursue martial arts later.
>
> As far as stopping a flying fist in mid-air, I don't see it happening. 
> But
> he may surprise me, his hearing is very keen and he can hear whatever I do
> in any room of the house.  I have to use stealth to sneak up on him and 
> that
> is getting harder by the day.  Actually, it is impossible if the house is
> quiet.  So who knows.......don't give up.
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk
> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> It must be pointed out here that, as much as I am sorry I started this, I
>> do *NOT* have the skills to do this, I don't even come close, I never 
>> will
>> come close, and I make no claim to being able to do anything like what I
>> believe, is potentially possible.  I believe it's possible based on one
>> blind man in particular with whom I was acquainted and who I witnessed
>> navigating environments without using a cane or dog.  I, however, also
>> having a severe hearing loss, will never come close to having this type 
>> of
>> awareness.  I am, at best, an over-educated advanced beginner. :)
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O. Hanson" <
>> mhanson at winternet.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:31 AM
>> Subject: Re:
>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>
>>
>>  I have studied martial arts to some extent.  I do not have anything like
>>> Mark Burning Hawk's skills.  That being said, I can tell you there is
>>> nothing necessarily "mystical" about them.  I would love to find out 
>>> where I
>>> could learn to use information I could get from practicing such 
>>> activities
>>> to replace a white cane but would need some convincing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hanson
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" 
>>> <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
>>> >
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re:
>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 
>>> 2008
>>>
>>>
>>>  hi,
>>>>
>>>> come on bud, you really expect blind people to walk down the street or
>>>> through a shopping mall shouting 'blind guy coming thru"?
>>>> lay off the peace pipe!
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" <
>>>> stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 
>>>> 2008
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Interesting; at bottom line, blind people are required to warn the
>>>>> public of their presence.  Of course I know I'm being slightly 
>>>>> stretchy
>>>>> here, but shouldn't the goal be to eliminate this need?
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 
>>>>> 2008
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Chuck,
>>>>>> Believe it or not, I have had several people fall over my cane 
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> walk backward while chatting with friends and the like. I have no 
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> the liability would be if you were acting as the reasonable blind
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> would act. However,  I can almost guarantee you that if you were
>>>>>> practicing
>>>>>> some form of martial arts  navigation you are going to be liable if
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> is injured because you walked into them and the like.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is totally hypothetical but I have always wondered about the
>>>>>> potential
>>>>>> liability if someone is injured when they trip and fall over my cane
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> they are not paying attention. I realize its far-fetched but many law
>>>>>> suits
>>>>>> are far-fetched.
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH VICK " <keith-vick at msn.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List " <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; "Mark
>>>>>> BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:18 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
>>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi List Members, I believe that New York has a statute that 
>>>>>> disallows
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> claim of negligence based on failure to use a cane. This may be the
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>> in other states. Also, as someone who has had the privilege of
>>>>>>> training in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  aikido and brazilian jiu jitsu I find the concept of martial arts
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  as a recognized adaptive method rather amusing and highly 
>>>>>> speculative.
>>>>>>> However, I do admit that the training has helped me adjust to my
>>>>>>> progressively worsening vision mostly because the arts trains one to
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>> with unexpected movements against ones body - a rather common
>>>>>>> occurrence
>>>>>>> in the subways of New York city. Warmest regards, Keith Vick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Mark BurningHawk
>>>>>>> Sent: 1/4/2009 11:26:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
>>>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>>>>> I am not sure of a way in which a blind person using skills learned
>>>>>>> via a
>>>>>>> certain type of training could injure another person.  I am a bit
>>>>>>> disturbed
>>>>>>> to hear that there's a different "reasonable standard," for persons
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> blind persons, but other than that, I think my original question has
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> answered, and I really didn't mean to stir up any controversy over
>>>>>>> mobility
>>>>>>> methods.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c
>>>>>> om
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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