[blindlaw] Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008

Philip Breeze pebreeze at gmail.com
Tue Jan 6 20:04:49 UTC 2009


Here is my brief encounter with such.  I have a congenitally blind 6 year
old son.  He maneuvers using echolocation.  He can walk through a building
without touching a single wall and navigate doorways and hallways.  He can
walk outside and when he is approached by someone he can reach out and touch
them at perfect arms length.  He does the same with any solid surface he
approaches.

He started this when he was crawling at about 8 months of age.  He would tap
the floor and maneuver around obstacles like walls, chairs, counters, etc..
He gets better with age.  He deals with terrain elevation by scooting his
feet with his toe in the air and his heel barely touching the floor.  He can
then detect any difference in surface texture, material, etc..  I feel at
some point he will change his mode and right now I am trying to enforce his
cane usage but it is quite fascinating to watch him walk without it.  I am
hoping that he will pursue martial arts later.

As far as stopping a flying fist in mid-air, I don't see it happening.  But
he may surprise me, his hearing is very keen and he can hear whatever I do
in any room of the house.  I have to use stealth to sneak up on him and that
is getting harder by the day.  Actually, it is impossible if the house is
quiet.  So who knows.......don't give up.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk
<stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> It must be pointed out here that, as much as I am sorry I started this, I
> do *NOT* have the skills to do this, I don't even come close, I never will
> come close, and I make no claim to being able to do anything like what I
> believe, is potentially possible.  I believe it's possible based on one
> blind man in particular with whom I was acquainted and who I witnessed
> navigating environments without using a cane or dog.  I, however, also
> having a severe hearing loss, will never come close to having this type of
> awareness.  I am, at best, an over-educated advanced beginner. :)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O. Hanson" <
> mhanson at winternet.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:31 AM
> Subject: Re:
> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>
>
>  I have studied martial arts to some extent.  I do not have anything like
>> Mark Burning Hawk's skills.  That being said, I can tell you there is
>> nothing necessarily "mystical" about them.  I would love to find out where I
>> could learn to use information I could get from practicing such activities
>> to replace a white cane but would need some convincing.
>>
>>
>> Mike Hanson
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
>> >
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:05 PM
>> Subject: Re:
>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>
>>
>>  hi,
>>>
>>> come on bud, you really expect blind people to walk down the street or
>>> through a shopping mall shouting 'blind guy coming thru"?
>>> lay off the peace pipe!
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" <
>>> stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re:
>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>
>>>
>>>  Interesting; at bottom line, blind people are required to warn the
>>>> public of their presence.  Of course I know I'm being slightly stretchy
>>>> here, but shouldn't the goal be to eliminate this need?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Chuck,
>>>>> Believe it or not, I have had several people fall over my cane because
>>>>> they
>>>>> walk backward while chatting with friends and the like. I have no idea
>>>>> what
>>>>> the liability would be if you were acting as the reasonable blind
>>>>> person
>>>>> would act. However,  I can almost guarantee you that if you were
>>>>> practicing
>>>>> some form of martial arts  navigation you are going to be liable if
>>>>> someone
>>>>> is injured because you walked into them and the like.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
>>>>> 2008
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is totally hypothetical but I have always wondered about the
>>>>> potential
>>>>> liability if someone is injured when they trip and fall over my cane
>>>>> when
>>>>> they are not paying attention. I realize its far-fetched but many law
>>>>> suits
>>>>> are far-fetched.
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH VICK " <keith-vick at msn.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List " <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; "Mark
>>>>> BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:18 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi List Members, I believe that New York has a statute that disallows
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> claim of negligence based on failure to use a cane. This may be the
>>>>>> case
>>>>>> in other states. Also, as someone who has had the privilege of
>>>>>> training in
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  aikido and brazilian jiu jitsu I find the concept of martial arts
>>>>>> training
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  as a recognized adaptive method rather amusing and highly speculative.
>>>>>> However, I do admit that the training has helped me adjust to my
>>>>>> progressively worsening vision mostly because the arts trains one to
>>>>>> deal
>>>>>> with unexpected movements against ones body - a rather common
>>>>>> occurrence
>>>>>> in the subways of New York city. Warmest regards, Keith Vick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Mark BurningHawk
>>>>>> Sent: 1/4/2009 11:26:01 PM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
>>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
>>>>>> I am not sure of a way in which a blind person using skills learned
>>>>>> via a
>>>>>> certain type of training could injure another person.  I am a bit
>>>>>> disturbed
>>>>>> to hear that there's a different "reasonable standard," for persons
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> blind persons, but other than that, I think my original question has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> answered, and I really didn't mean to stir up any controversy over
>>>>>> mobility
>>>>>> methods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c
>>>>> om
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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