[blindlaw] Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008

Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov
Tue Jan 6 23:32:36 UTC 2009 

Can we change the subject line on this string of notes?  The original
thread is so obsolete that we are required to open and read the notes to
have any idea what the subject is.   

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of James Pepper
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:38 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re:
[blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
2008

They had a doucmentary on a kid who used echo location really well but
the problem was that when confronted with a lot of traffic noise, that
ability disappeared.  Also he was unable to determine areas where there
were sudden drop offs.  For instance cliffs.  The key was to use a cane
or a guide dog and not rely on echo location for everything.  It is a
tool, not the whole solution.

James

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Philip Breeze <pebreeze at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here is my brief encounter with such.  I have a congenitally blind 6 
> year old son.  He maneuvers using echolocation.  He can walk through a

> building without touching a single wall and navigate doorways and 
> hallways.  He can walk outside and when he is approached by someone he

> can reach out and touch them at perfect arms length.  He does the same

> with any solid surface he approaches.
>
> He started this when he was crawling at about 8 months of age.  He 
> would tap the floor and maneuver around obstacles like walls, chairs, 
> counters, etc..
> He gets better with age.  He deals with terrain elevation by scooting 
> his feet with his toe in the air and his heel barely touching the 
> floor.  He can then detect any difference in surface texture, 
> material, etc..  I feel at some point he will change his mode and 
> right now I am trying to enforce his cane usage but it is quite 
> fascinating to watch him walk without it.  I am hoping that he will 
> pursue martial arts later.
>
> As far as stopping a flying fist in mid-air, I don't see it happening.

> But he may surprise me, his hearing is very keen and he can hear 
> whatever I do in any room of the house.  I have to use stealth to 
> sneak up on him and that is getting harder by the day.  Actually, it 
> is impossible if the house is quiet.  So who knows.......don't give 
> up.
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk
> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
> > It must be pointed out here that, as much as I am sorry I started 
> > this, I do *NOT* have the skills to do this, I don't even come 
> > close, I never
> will
> > come close, and I make no claim to being able to do anything like 
> > what I believe, is potentially possible.  I believe it's possible 
> > based on one blind man in particular with whom I was acquainted and 
> > who I witnessed navigating environments without using a cane or dog.

> > I, however, also having a severe hearing loss, will never come close

> > to having this type
> of
> > awareness.  I am, at best, an over-educated advanced beginner. :)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O. Hanson" < 
> > mhanson at winternet.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:31 AM
> > Subject: Re:
> > [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of

> > 2008
> >
> >
> >  I have studied martial arts to some extent.  I do not have anything

> > like
> >> Mark Burning Hawk's skills.  That being said, I can tell you there 
> >> is nothing necessarily "mystical" about them.  I would love to find

> >> out
> where I
> >> could learn to use information I could get from practicing such
> activities
> >> to replace a white cane but would need some convincing.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Hanson
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <
> b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> >> >
> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:05 PM
> >> Subject: Re:
> >> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct 
> >> of
> 2008
> >>
> >>
> >>  hi,
> >>>
> >>> come on bud, you really expect blind people to walk down the 
> >>> street or through a shopping mall shouting 'blind guy coming
thru"?
> >>> lay off the peace pipe!
> >>> Bryan Schulz
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" < 
> >>> stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re:
> >>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct 
> >>> of
> 2008
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Interesting; at bottom line, blind people are required to warn 
> >>> the
> >>>> public of their presence.  Of course I know I'm being slightly
> stretchy
> >>>> here, but shouldn't the goal be to eliminate this need?
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
> >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:29 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct

> >>>> of
> 2008
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Chuck,
> >>>>> Believe it or not, I have had several people fall over my cane
> because
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> walk backward while chatting with friends and the like. I have 
> >>>>> no
> idea
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> the liability would be if you were acting as the reasonable 
> >>>>> blind person would act. However,  I can almost guarantee you 
> >>>>> that if you were practicing some form of martial arts  
> >>>>> navigation you are going to be liable if someone is injured 
> >>>>> because you walked into them and the like.
> >>>>> Take care,
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:
> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >>>>> On
> >>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:56 PM
> >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAc
> >>>>> t of
> >>>>> 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is totally hypothetical but I have always wondered about 
> >>>>> the potential liability if someone is injured when they trip and

> >>>>> fall over my cane when they are not paying attention. I realize 
> >>>>> its far-fetched but many law suits are far-fetched.
> >>>>> Chuck
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH VICK " 
> >>>>> <keith-vick at msn.com
> >
> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List " <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; 
> >>>>> "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:18 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Hi List Members, I believe that New York has a statute that
> disallows
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> claim of negligence based on failure to use a cane. This may be

> >>>>>> the case in other states. Also, as someone who has had the 
> >>>>>> privilege of training in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  aikido and brazilian jiu jitsu I find the concept of martial 
> >>>>> arts
> >>>>>> training
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  as a recognized adaptive method rather amusing and highly
> speculative.
> >>>>>> However, I do admit that the training has helped me adjust to 
> >>>>>> my progressively worsening vision mostly because the arts 
> >>>>>> trains one to deal with unexpected movements against ones body 
> >>>>>> - a rather common occurrence in the subways of New York city. 
> >>>>>> Warmest regards, Keith Vick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Mark BurningHawk
> >>>>>> Sent: 1/4/2009 11:26:01 PM
> >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008

> >>>>>> I am not sure of a way in which a blind person using skills 
> >>>>>> learned via a certain type of training could injure another 
> >>>>>> person.  I am a bit disturbed to hear that there's a different 
> >>>>>> "reasonable standard," for persons and blind persons, but other

> >>>>>> than that, I think my original question has been answered, and 
> >>>>>> I really didn't mean to stir up any controversy over mobility 
> >>>>>> methods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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> >>>>>> blindlaw:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%4
> 0msn.c
> >>>>> om
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
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> bcglob
> >>>>> al.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>> for
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> bcglobal.net
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >
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