[blindlaw] Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008

Tue Jan 6 22:38:08 UTC 2009

They had a doucmentary on a kid who used echo location really well but the
problem was that when confronted with a lot of traffic noise, that ability
disappeared.  Also he was unable to determine areas where there were sudden
drop offs.  For instance cliffs.  The key was to use a cane or a guide dog
and not rely on echo location for everything.  It is a tool, not the whole
solution.

James

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Philip Breeze <pebreeze at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here is my brief encounter with such.  I have a congenitally blind 6 year
> old son.  He maneuvers using echolocation.  He can walk through a building
> without touching a single wall and navigate doorways and hallways.  He can
> walk outside and when he is approached by someone he can reach out and
> touch
> them at perfect arms length.  He does the same with any solid surface he
> approaches.
>
> He started this when he was crawling at about 8 months of age.  He would
> tap
> the floor and maneuver around obstacles like walls, chairs, counters, etc..
> He gets better with age.  He deals with terrain elevation by scooting his
> feet with his toe in the air and his heel barely touching the floor.  He
> can
> then detect any difference in surface texture, material, etc..  I feel at
> some point he will change his mode and right now I am trying to enforce his
> cane usage but it is quite fascinating to watch him walk without it.  I am
> hoping that he will pursue martial arts later.
>
> As far as stopping a flying fist in mid-air, I don't see it happening.  But
> he may surprise me, his hearing is very keen and he can hear whatever I do
> in any room of the house.  I have to use stealth to sneak up on him and
> that
> is getting harder by the day.  Actually, it is impossible if the house is
> quiet.  So who knows.......don't give up.
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk
> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
> > It must be pointed out here that, as much as I am sorry I started this, I
> > do *NOT* have the skills to do this, I don't even come close, I never
> will
> > come close, and I make no claim to being able to do anything like what I
> > believe, is potentially possible.  I believe it's possible based on one
> > blind man in particular with whom I was acquainted and who I witnessed
> > navigating environments without using a cane or dog.  I, however, also
> > having a severe hearing loss, will never come close to having this type
> of
> > awareness.  I am, at best, an over-educated advanced beginner. :)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O. Hanson" <
> > mhanson at winternet.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:31 AM
> > Subject: Re:
> > [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >
> >
> >  I have studied martial arts to some extent.  I do not have anything like
> >> Mark Burning Hawk's skills.  That being said, I can tell you there is
> >> nothing necessarily "mystical" about them.  I would love to find out
> where I
> >> could learn to use information I could get from practicing such
> activities
> >> to replace a white cane but would need some convincing.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Hanson
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <
> b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> >> >
> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:05 PM
> >> Subject: Re:
> >> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
> 2008
> >>
> >>
> >>  hi,
> >>>
> >>> come on bud, you really expect blind people to walk down the street or
> >>> through a shopping mall shouting 'blind guy coming thru"?
> >>> lay off the peace pipe!
> >>> Bryan Schulz
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" <
> >>> stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re:
> >>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
> 2008
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Interesting; at bottom line, blind people are required to warn the
> >>>> public of their presence.  Of course I know I'm being slightly
> stretchy
> >>>> here, but shouldn't the goal be to eliminate this need?
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
> >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:29 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
> 2008
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Chuck,
> >>>>> Believe it or not, I have had several people fall over my cane
> because
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> walk backward while chatting with friends and the like. I have no
> idea
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> the liability would be if you were acting as the reasonable blind
> >>>>> person
> >>>>> would act. However,  I can almost guarantee you that if you were
> >>>>> practicing
> >>>>> some form of martial arts  navigation you are going to be liable if
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>> is injured because you walked into them and the like.
> >>>>> Take care,
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:
> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >>>>> On
> >>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:56 PM
> >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
> >>>>> 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is totally hypothetical but I have always wondered about the
> >>>>> potential
> >>>>> liability if someone is injured when they trip and fall over my cane
> >>>>> when
> >>>>> they are not paying attention. I realize its far-fetched but many law
> >>>>> suits
> >>>>> are far-fetched.
> >>>>> Chuck
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH VICK " <keith-vick at msn.com
> >
> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List " <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; "Mark
> >>>>> BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:18 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Hi List Members, I believe that New York has a statute that
> disallows
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> claim of negligence based on failure to use a cane. This may be the
> >>>>>> case
> >>>>>> in other states. Also, as someone who has had the privilege of
> >>>>>> training in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  aikido and brazilian jiu jitsu I find the concept of martial arts
> >>>>>> training
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  as a recognized adaptive method rather amusing and highly
> speculative.
> >>>>>> However, I do admit that the training has helped me adjust to my
> >>>>>> progressively worsening vision mostly because the arts trains one to
> >>>>>> deal
> >>>>>> with unexpected movements against ones body - a rather common
> >>>>>> occurrence
> >>>>>> in the subways of New York city. Warmest regards, Keith Vick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Mark BurningHawk
> >>>>>> Sent: 1/4/2009 11:26:01 PM
> >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>>> I am not sure of a way in which a blind person using skills learned
> >>>>>> via a
> >>>>>> certain type of training could injure another person.  I am a bit
> >>>>>> disturbed
> >>>>>> to hear that there's a different "reasonable standard," for persons
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> blind persons, but other than that, I think my original question has
> >>>>>> been
> >>>>>> answered, and I really didn't mean to stir up any controversy over
> >>>>>> mobility
> >>>>>> methods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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> >>>>>> blindlaw:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c
> >>>>> om
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> >>>>> al.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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