[blindlaw] ADA and Discovery

Rob Tabor rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net
Mon Apr 5 22:24:55 UTC 2010


John and all.
I totally agree with John and disagree with Sarah. One must gather all the 
relevant facts of a situation before passing judgment on a colleague's 
professional competency. The old adage "but for the grace of the gods go I" 
is a reminder to us all, myself included. Have a blessed day
Rob Tabor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Ramsey" <joramsey at cox.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery


> Actually Sarah,
> This absolutely does not fall under malpractice in Florida and me not 
> being
> qualified to practice? I am not going to dignify that with a response.
>
> John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A.
>
> P.O. Box 6063
>
> Gainesville, FL 32627
>
> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>
> Fax: (352) 240-6453
>
> This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or
> legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication 
> in
> error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed
> materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be
> aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this
> communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or
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> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
> communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that 
> email
> messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
> control.  Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Clark
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 9:20 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery
>
>
> Hi John,
> Your client has suffered as a result of a mistake due to your blindness?
> I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I would conclude that you are not qualified 
> to
>
> be a lawyer, representing clients, until you figure out a solution to get
> this problem resolved.  Blindness is not an excuse for malpractice.  It
> seems to me that you would have an obligation to make sure you have some 
> way
>
> of reading documents, no matter the form.  If that requires a human 
> reader,
> then that is your obligation.
> You can't automatically expect that everything will be handed to you in an
> accessible form, particularly in discovery where it is not unheard of for
> the opposing side to attempt to hide documents even from a sighted 
> attorney.
>
> You must be able to read everything, no matter its form.  Personally, I
> believe the best way of accomplishing this is with a reader, because, 
> though
>
> you can try to "force" the other side to have to provide things in
> accessible form, what if they don't?  The responsibility for the well 
> being
> of your client is still ultimately yours.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Ramsey" <joramsey at cox.net>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 5:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery
>
>
>> Hello Denise,
>> I truly appreciate your suggestion and am in the process of doing
>> that, however, in the meantime, my client has already suffered one
>> adverse ruling based on a handwritten image scanned into a computer
>> with no readily identifiable title. Also, as I have already mentioned,
>> all of their PDF files are in accessible whereas most every other PDF
>> image I receive is accessible. It is definitely in whatever method of
>> scanning that they are using.
>> I will keep you posted.
>> Cordially,
>> John
>>
>> John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A.
>>
>> P.O. Box 6063
>>
>> Gainesville, FL 32627
>>
>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>
>> Fax: (352) 240-6453
>>
>> This communication contains information that may be confidential
>> and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the
>> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received
>> this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and
>> destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic
>> material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized
>> disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the
>> information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability.
>> Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey
>> cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are uncomfortable
>> with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with
>> John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you
>> decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that email
>> messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
>> control.  Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of denise avant
>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 10:02 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> I practice criminal law in Chicago with the Public Defenders office.
>> However, it is done at the appellate and collateral remedies levels,
>> and I have been able to get State Motions and Briefs in word or
>> regular adobe. Most of the Assistant State's Attorneys, and Assistant
>> Attorney Generals are very nice in e-mailing me the electronic file.
>> But this is done on an individual basis. I'm not certain there is an
>> overall policy by the offices
>> itself to do that. Things may be different at the federal level as the
>> various prosecutors and defense as well as the courts have communicated 
>> in
>> an electronic manner for years. If you have not already done so, perhaps
>> you
>> should find someone in the public defenders office and other offices to
>> explain why your assistive technology cannot handle their documents.
>> Essentially, I am suggesting if you haven't done so already, make an
>> attempt
>> to educate and see if this gets the job done.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Ross Doerr
>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 7:27 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery
>>
>>    Hi John:
>> I don't practice criminal law, and do not have any direct experience
>> in a challenge under the ADA to the form of discovery from an adverse
>> party. The few times it has come up for me, usually involving an issue
>> with the State (in my case Maine) a telephone call asking them
>> (usually the attorney
>> general's office) to convert it for me has always resolved the problem 
>> for
>> me. I may get it converted as an RTF, but at least I can read it, and the
>> unreadable PDF document that I have from them initialy, can always be 
>> used
>> as the "referencing document" for court purposes.
>> What usually happens to me is the other side will scan a document on 
>> their
>> printer and push the PDF button, and then think that it is now a real PDF
>> that can be read by JAWS or the adobe acrobat document reader. With all
>> due
>> respect to my sighted colleagues, they haven't a clue that all
>> PDF's are not created equal, and they think that they have just given you
>> what everyone else gets. so, since they have probably read somewhere that
>> assistive technology for blind people can read a PDF, your assistive
>> technology can handle it from there.
>> Like I said, most of them havent a clue what "our world" is really like,
>> because they haven't had to pay any attention to it before. This issue is
>> fascinating for me, so by all means please keep the list
>> posted on what happens with it. I very much want to know what comes of it
>> all.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Ramsey" <joramsey at cox.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 3:34 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Discovery
>>
>>
>>> Hello All of the Criminal practitioners on the list,
>>> I practice criminal law here in Florida and have encountered a
>>> problem. When
>>> the State and Public Defender's Offices are providing me with documents,
>>> they are in a PDF that JAWS reads as blank. As you can imagine the
>>> default
>>> titles of the PDF files can basically nullify any real attempts to
>>> discover
>>> what the document is. My question is: has anyone had to challenge the
>>> form
>>> of discovery under the ADA? If so, what was the outcome?
>>> Cordially,
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A.
>>>
>>> P.O. Box 6063
>>>
>>> Gainesville, FL 32627
>>>
>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>
>>> Fax: (352) 240-6453
>>>
>>>
>>> This communication contains information that may be confidential
>>> and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the
>>> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received
>>> this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and
>>> destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic
>>> material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized
>>> disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the
>>> information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil
>>> liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet,
>>> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
>>> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
>>> communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
>>> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that
>>> email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances
>>> beyond our control.  Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> adrunn
>> er.com
>>
>>
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