[blindlaw] blind attorneys

Sun Nov 21 20:19:16 UTC 2010

What is a good guess on the employment rate for blind attorneys?

However, there are just too many attorneys period!!
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys

>    I've read, with increasing interest, the various posts regarding a 
> glind
> attorney who contacted this list just to see about what amounts to the
> scarcity of jobs for blind lawyers.
> The public responses to him have ranged from thinly veiled accusations of
> laziness to those who seem to feel  that if you can't get out there and do
> it on your own, you, in some way, lack courage. All of which were aimed at
> those, meaning blind lawyers, who haven't been able to find work.
> If you log on to the U.S. Census board and check the jobless rate among
> qualified, working age individuals with a disability you will get a feel 
> for
> the jobless rate, and this does not include specific statistics on the
> blind, much less blind lawyers.
> Everyone here has a valid point to make.
> I will put my 2 cents worth in as well.
> Look at it like this, lets say your SSDI benefit check is about $1,000 and
> your SGA is just under $1,600 per month. These are valid benefit ranges as
> put forth by the SS ofice this past week here in Maine, which is, in spite
> of what the rest of the country may think, still a part of the United
> States.
> There are times I doubt that premise.
> So, you have a total of $2600.00o per month to live on.
> Out of that cost, you must pay rent (even with Section 8 assistance, it 
> can
> get tight), pay utilities, buy food, save for your bar dues and CLE
> requirements (this latter for those of us who are admitted to practice in
> states with mandatory bars and CLE), then add in your medical co-pays for
> doctor appointments etc. Then there are the transportation costs, for 
> Pete's
> sake don't forget that. Your practice will likely be restricted to your
> immediate area until you earn enough to be able to pay transportation out 
> of
> your area. Be careful with that, because you may be exceeding SGA if you 
> can
> afford that kind of transportation.
> Now remember that you may be violating state law or bar regulations if you
> try to practice on your own without legal malpractice insurance. Now, lets
> hope you can use CaseMaker on your local bar asociation web site, because
> after all of the foregoing you can't afford a lexis or westlaw 
> subscription
> to do your research so that you aren't committing legal malpractice.
> Anyone out there have free access to an accessible law library anywhere?
> Anyone able to juggle the reporting requirements for either a trial work
> deal with the SS or VR or just keep up with the SSDI reporting monthly?
> I think you see where the above statement of facts takes you. If you're
> going to try it on your own, you may very well be risking a violation of
> some law or regulation somewhere. Remember, if you are on SSDI, you MUST
> report any income you make during a month. To those of you out there 
> skilled
> in SS law, you see my point, there are ways you can violate SS SGA
> regulations and not even know it until it is too late.
>   How many of our fellow sighted lawyers are this restricted?
> The above is simply a statement of fact for a lot of lawyers who are 
> blind.
> To be sure, things are different depending on what your particular 
> situation
> is. There are those who went blind after being in practice for years. 
> There
> are those who were able to start volunteering their services for free 
> until
> someone decided that they "really can do the work" - a "test run" being a
> common practice that most sighted lawyers don't have to put up with.
> Then there are those who haven't ever had to pay their own overhead, so
> don't really know how expensive it can be on fixed income because they 
> work
> for a governmental office or large firm that pays it all for them.
> Some of the foregoing may apply to some of you, to none of you or to all 
> of
> you. How much of what does or does not apply to you is immaterial.
> It is simply an observation that, even with an advanced degree, under good
> conditions, it is extremely difficult to try to work on your own. Those of
> you who have done your own accounting, secretarial work and research on 
> top
> of careful compliance with SSDI reporting regulations know what I mean. 
> Its
> rough to do. Not impossible, but still pretty darn rough.
> Then, lets view the next level of plans that the government has to try to
> fix the depression that we are in.
> When it comes to jobs, things are bad out there, anyone disagree with that
> observation?
> So, the government, according to this mornings news broadcast, wants to 
> cut
> budgets and cut the Federal payroll by laying off several thousand federal
> employees. The result is, as most of you can see (blindness not
> withstanding) is that the congress is carefully planning to increase the
> number of unemployed individuals out there, while simultainiously planning
> to increase the retirement age to further restrict and generally forestall
> overall job availability on a national scale.
> This mentality will, without doubt, trickle down to state and local
> governments. So we're all in that boat sooner or later.
> then they are going to go after social security recipients and cut that 
> area
> as well.
> I admit that I don't know anything about how to fix the economy, but then
> again neither do the economists.
> My point is just this - regarding jobs for the blind - it isn't good out
> there and its going to stay that way for a while.
> If we don't band together and present a united front, we will always be
> viewed as being what blindness experts (precious few of whom are actualy
> blind) define us as being. A low-incidence disability population that
> requires a lot of assistance to get a job.
> Is it up to us to solve all of our own problems in the job market? Only to
> a point. We can't do it all ourselves, and to assert that we must do it 
> that
> way is just kidding ourselves.
> Do I have a job? Not any more.  I was laid off  at the end of september.
> That was my first full-time legal job, with benefits in 15 years. My
> take-home pay was $31,000.00 a year, and that was to support myself and my
> wife. That didn't leave a lot to put away for savings. Up here in Maine, 
> our
> tax rates can shame Massachusetts.
> Like most everywhere else, Maine has a very significant unemployment rate,
> and  its actual level depends upon whether you want to believe what the
> State or federal government statistics say, or the Democrats, or the
> Republicans  or the independents.
> Take your pick, it really doesn't matter in the final analysis.
> So, is it harder for a blind professional to get a job than for a sighted
> counterpart?
> Of course it is.
> Arguing the validity of that fact serves only to keep our ranks split.
> Solving the problem is the real issue.
> Who has a crystal ball we can use to get the silver-bullet answer?
> "The views expressed in this email are only mine"
>
> Ross
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Aser Tolentino" <agtolentino at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>
>
>> Hi Dennis,
>> I am in Sacramento, UC Davis Class of 2010. The vast majority of my
>> experience, like many of my friends, is in criminal prosecution. With
>> budgets being what they are now, we've been lucky to find volunteer
>> positions.
>>
>> Best,
>> Aser
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Dennis Clark
>> <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Aser,
>>> Congratulations!  I assume you are still on cloud nine today.  Where in
>>> California are you located?  I look forward to hearing from you.
>>> All the best,
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aser Tolentino"
>>> <agtolentino at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:13 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>>>
>>>
>>>  I guess you can count me among the unemployed blind attorneys now, as I
>>>> learned last night that I passed the CA bar. Regardless of disability
>>>> though
>>>> many in my class have found it difficult to find work.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:56 PM, James Weisberg <jimi-law at dc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  My experience is similar Noel.  My point:  numerically speaking the
>>>>> effort
>>>>> of the credentials are not worth the "chance" you will be one of the
>>>>> "lucky"
>>>>> one's to get a job offer.  Congrats on making it into the public 
>>>>> sector
>>>>> as
>>>>> I
>>>>> believe that is the place for those such as us with vision problems 
>>>>> and
>>>>> law
>>>>> degrees.  I am currently in the process of waiting for a job interview
>>>>> with
>>>>> the Fed myself!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:28 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>>>>>
>>>>> James:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have lost track of your original point.   I hope this response is on
>>>>> target.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was blind during law school, worked as a summer associate for a
>>>>> nationally-known firm, and received a job offer as a result of my work
>>>>> during that summer.  I was employed by that firm for over five years.
>>>>> I
>>>>> now
>>>>> practice for the federal government.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know of others as well who were blind before law school who got jobs
>>>>> at
>>>>> private firms.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also know that tremendous discrimination occurs but my own 
>>>>> experience
>>>>> tells me that it is entirely possible for a blind person to receive
>>>>> offers
>>>>> of employment to practice in the private sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noel Nightingale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of James Weisberg
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:48 AM
>>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to distinguish, I'm getting back to Dave's comments below again
>>>>> now,
>>>>> between employed blind lawyers who lost sight AFTER they had been
>>>>> employed
>>>>> and developed a rep before going blind as being competent from those
>>>>> who
>>>>> are
>>>>> blind and thus never given the opportunity to develop such a rep 
>>>>> unless
>>>>> they
>>>>> can do it on their own as I have.  I just don't count blind lawyers in
>>>>> my
>>>>> calculation if they lost their sight after they were established
>>>>> because
>>>>> my
>>>>> point is NOT whether or not a blind person can do the work, I know as 
>>>>> I
>>>>> have
>>>>> been doing it for over ten years now.  My point is the effort for the
>>>>> credentials compared with the likelihood of a job offer means go for
>>>>> something else . . . that's all.  So I too would love the numbers on
>>>>> blind
>>>>> lawyers never offered employment compared against employed blind
>>>>> lawyers
>>>>> who
>>>>> were blind prior to ever practicing!!  I'm betting close to
>>>>> "astronomical."
>>>>> *smile*
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of mfhurley at optonline.net
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:29 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>>>>>
>>>>> Prospects for blind lawyers were not good in a great ecomony.  I agree
>>>>> with
>>>>> Dennis' post wholeheartedly.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Date: Friday, November 19, 2010 5:26 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blind attorneys
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> > James:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I would like to suggest that the unemployment rate for blind
>>>>> > persons
>>>>> > in most all, if not all fields of endeavor is low. While my
>>>>> > evidence
>>>>> > is anecdotal, I don't think that it is necessarily any worse for
>>>>> > blind lawyers. Over the years I have known a bunch of blind
>>>>> > lawyers,
>>>>> > who are working.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > From what I read, the prospect for all lawyers isn't that good
>>>>> > right
>>>>> > now, so it is hard to separate the blindness penalty from the
>>>>> > bad
>>>>> > economy penalty.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dave
>>>>> >
>>>>> > At 05:55 PM 11/18/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> > >Based upon my experience, Berkeley grad, top tier law grad,
>>>>> > ZERO job offers
>>>>> > >despite NEVER not getting an interview, combined with the
>>>>> > extremely low
>>>>> > >numbers of blind attorneys I can't think of what there might be
>>>>> > to discuss.
>>>>> > >My advice to anyone with vision issues considering law as a
>>>>> > career is to not
>>>>> > >waste their time or money they have a greater chance statistically,
>>>>> > >probably, of getting hit by lightening on the way to law class
>>>>> > than ever
>>>>> > >getting an offer of employment. Now if you come from money, forget
>>>>> > >everything I have said and just open your own firm! THAT IS
>>>>> > THE WAY IT IS!
>>>>> > >But there are always EXCEPTIONS. I personally wouldn't want to
>>>>> > invest the
>>>>> > >time and money law school requires on the hopes I'll be an
>>>>> > >exception.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mfhurley%40optonli%0Ane.net
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
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>>>
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