[blindlaw] Blind Driver Challenge and CAPTCHAS

Fri Sep 10 22:41:53 UTC 2010

It's a matter of priorities then, isn't it?  Shouldn't we be making it a
priority to enhance web accessibility today rather than making it a bigger
priority to design vehicles for the blind in a distant tomorrow?

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 6:12 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Driver Challenge and CAPTCHAS

Hello Steve and everyone,

It can't be any more complicated than developing a car drivable 
by a blind 
person. And we're developing such a beast. If we can find the technical 
know-how to develop a blind drivable vehicle interface  for God 
sakes we 
should be able to develop software capable of making captcha images 
available to screen reading systems while hiding it from 
robots. We're 100% 
behind the Blind Driver Challenge but have a real issue with 
the idea that 
we can develop this vehicle interface but seem lost when it 
comes to the 
problem of enabling blind and deaf-blind individuals to have 
the ability to 
solve captchas independently. All the best.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:

It's very complicated.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:

> Peter:
> very good point.
> However, this can't be used for signing up, not at first.
> Also, you have to understand different companies create different
> structures, so it'll depend on that.
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:15 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>
>> Hello Steve and everyone,
>>
>>    I've used many Web sites where one must reply to an email 
message in
>> order to activate a subscription, process and order, etc. 
This works well
>> for me and I'm sure lots of others. This very procedure was 
followed when
>> I
>> ordered my free NFB cane. No problem with that. It means a few extra
>> steps
>> but doesn't shut anyone out.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 3:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> It just isn't that simple.  Blocking the message may keep them from
>> getting
>> visibility, but it doesn't prevent such messages from 
bogging down the
>> network
>> and the ISP who was not able to prevent a robot from subscribing.
>> Because
>> there are sites out there who protect users by providing ways to hide
>> their
>> origin, it isn't simple to identify the problem.  However, I 
also think
>> that
>> CAPTCHAs are a very convenient answer and that their use has caused
>> limited
>> thought to be given to other approaches.  The trouble is that answers
>> just
>> are not that obvious.  As Chris said, certain other kinds of 
CAPTCHAs may
>> discriminate against other types of developmental 
disabilities or even
>> people whose primary language is not that of whatever 
protective scheme
>> is
>> developed.  The idea of sending a text to a cellphone to provide a
>> password
>> is great if one happens to have a cellphone, but there are ways this
>> could
>> be
>> scripted around as well.  I think this is where the struggle 
is, we don't
>> like CAPTCHAs for good reason but don't have a real sense of what to
>> suggest
>> as an
>> alternative.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:27:26 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Chris and everyone,
>>
>>>   I'd like to know what happened to spam filtering software or the
>>> diligence of host administrators to block email and IP 
addresses from
>>> which
>>> these bot messages come.  If they enlisted the help of 
their customers
>>> to
>>> track this stuff down the use of captchas would be 
unnecessary. No one
>>> would
>>> be discriminated against. If more of their customers would use those
>>> "Report
>>> Abuse" links it would go a long way to reducing or 
eliminating the need
>>> for
>>> this kind of junk on Web sites. All the best.
>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 11:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>
>>
>>> Fair point.
>>
>>
>>> --- On Fri, 9/10/10, Chris Danielsen <cdanielsen8 at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> From: Chris Danielsen <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 5:42 AM
>>>> Do you mean the concept of captchas
>>>> in general, or visual captchas? I think
>>>> advocacy groups have steered clear of opposing captchas
>>>> because they are, in
>>>> fact, a legitimate security mechanism to prevent a real
>>>> threat. The question
>>>> is how they should be designed. This is problematic because
>>>> I can't think of
>>>> a captcha that doesn't discriminate against somebody. The
>>>> best ones are
>>>> probably the simple logic puzzles, but even those probably
>>>> discriminate
>>>> against certain people with developmental disabilities. I
>>>> guess the best we
>>>> can hope for is a captcha that discriminates against as few
>>>> people as
>>>> possible, or, perhaps in the future, someone will invent a
>>>> security
>>>> mechanism that makes them unnecessary.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of John Ramsey
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:05 PM
>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>
>>>> I don't have the answer to that one, but I am curious if
>>>> any advocacy group
>>>> has considered a cause of action because of these captias.
>>>> I fail to see how
>>>> they don't offend all of the recent cases regarding website
>>>> accessibility.
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A.
>>>>
>>>> P.O. Box 6063
>>>>
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32627
>>>>
>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>
>>>> Fax: (352) 240-6453
>>>>
>>>> This communication contains information that may be
>>>> confidential and/or
>>>> legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the
>>>> individual or
>>>> entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this
>>>> communication in
>>>> error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any
>>>> associated printed
>>>> materials and delete the electronic material from any
>>>> computer. Please be
>>>> aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication
>>>> of this
>>>> communication or the information it contains may result in
>>>> criminal and/or
>>>> civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over
>>>> the Internet,
>>>> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are
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>>>> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use
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>>>> communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us
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>>>> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must
>>>> also be aware that email
>>>> messages may be delayed or undelivered through
>>>> circumstances beyond our
>>>> control. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:42 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> So how can this new fangled audio captcha be
>>>> accessed by the deaf-blind?
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good afternoon list members.
>>>> I would like to up-date you on Linkedin. The log-in
>>>> page has a different
>>>> Captcha that works and is accessible. Once you enter
>>>> in your log-in
>>>> information, a page comes up and says: "please enter the
>>>> two words shown
>>>> above." The audio link comes up with a clear voice
>>>> that says: "Please
>>>> enter the following words. Do not worry if you have
>>>> trouble, just enter
>>>> your best Guess. You will here a number IE 5, then a
>>>> word such as Saturday,
>>>>
>>>> then a number like 8 and then a word of less. If you
>>>> do not enter in the
>>>> numbers, you can still move forward to the next page and
>>>> access your
>>>> account.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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