[blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:

Sat Sep 11 02:18:13 UTC 2010

E J,

I have been giving this some thought since my last detailed conversation on 
the subject.  I have to admit that it is a very difficult subject and think 
that it would require having the test phrase or word, the player, and other 
related controls built into one control.  Something like a Macromedia Flash 
control, but Macromedia is not my area of expertise and I will continue 
exploring the subject.

For the hearing impaired, a braille output device might work to draw or 
write, depending on whether or not the user selects braille output or dot 
matrix like graphics.  That would require additional hardware, but I am 
definitely not an expert in access for the hearing impaired.

Thanks,
Tom
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists at zufelt.ca>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:

> Good evening,
>
> I am wondering if someone has a suggestion of a CAPTCHA that cannot be 
> tricked by a robot, but that is accessible to * all * persons without 
> assistance.  If you come up with the concept I will write the code and 
> release it under GPL 3 (open source license).
>
> I make this offer fully realizing that there is * no * way to create a 
> verification system that cannot be tricked by robots that does not require 
> human perception as part of the solution.  Of course, as technology 
> improves software will become better at perceiving like humans.
>
> Thanks,
> Everett Zufelt
> http://zufelt.ca
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
> On 2010-09-10, at 9:46 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>
>> Peter:
>> Aren't there such things as hearing aids?
>> Etc. etc. etc.
>> There's a hundred and one flaws with your argument here.
>> Don't take me harshly, but I'm getting tired of your constant wining!
>> At least, you're making it look that way.
>>
>> So please, please, please, if you're not wining, then please make 
>> yourself clear.
>>
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 9:16 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>   If you don't have a hearing impairment. These things need to be
>>> accessible both audibly ant tactually to permit those with any kind of a
>>> hearing impairment to manipulate them without assistance of any kind
>>> including third party solutions as Web Vism and Salowna.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Tracey Fields" <tlfields2 at charter.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 5:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have been reading the comments all afternoon, and here is my input. 
>>> There
>>> is nothing wrong with using the captcha as a form of security in the 
>>> speech
>>> format if they would only play the letters/numbers without including the
>>> background noise.  It is almost impossible to make most of them out when
>>> they have all of that interference.  I had one the other day that was
>>> totally clear, only the man reading the sequence, and I got it the first
>>> time.  That seems like a pretty simple fix to me.  Many times I have 
>>> given
>>> up because I have punched in several different sequences and can never 
>>> get
>>> it correct because of the noise factor.  Making the audible captcha 
>>> audible
>>> and not garbled sounds pretty simple to me, and it is not discriminatory
>>> toward anyone that way.
>>>
>>> Tracey Fields
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 5:02 PM
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>
>>>> Hello George and everyone,
>>>>
>>>>  I've encountered a few sites where an email verification was required
>>>> for signing up or subscribing. When you selected the link sent to you 
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> email message your signup was complete. Alternatives to captchas are 
>>>> out
>>>> there. It's getting folks to use them that is the challenge before us.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>> very good point.
>>>> However, this can't be used for signing up, not at first.
>>>> Also, you have to understand different companies create different
>>>> structures, so it'll depend on that.
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:15 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Steve and everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I've used many Web sites where one must reply to an email message in
>>>>> order to activate a subscription, process and order, etc. This works 
>>>>> well
>>>>> for me and I'm sure lots of others. This very procedure was followed 
>>>>> when
>>>>> I
>>>>> ordered my free NFB cane. No problem with that. It means a few extra
>>>>> steps
>>>>> but doesn't shut anyone out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 3:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>
>>>>> It just isn't that simple.  Blocking the message may keep them from
>>>>> getting
>>>>> visibility, but it doesn't prevent such messages from bogging down the
>>>>> network
>>>>> and the ISP who was not able to prevent a robot from subscribing.
>>>>> Because
>>>>> there are sites out there who protect users by providing ways to hide
>>>>> their
>>>>> origin, it isn't simple to identify the problem.  However, I also 
>>>>> think
>>>>> that
>>>>> CAPTCHAs are a very convenient answer and that their use has caused
>>>>> limited
>>>>> thought to be given to other approaches.  The trouble is that answers
>>>>> just
>>>>> are not that obvious.  As Chris said, certain other kinds of CAPTCHAs 
>>>>> may
>>>>> discriminate against other types of developmental disabilities or even
>>>>> people whose primary language is not that of whatever protective 
>>>>> scheme
>>>>> is
>>>>> developed.  The idea of sending a text to a cellphone to provide a
>>>>> password
>>>>> is great if one happens to have a cellphone, but there are ways this
>>>>> could
>>>>> be
>>>>> scripted around as well.  I think this is where the struggle is, we 
>>>>> don't
>>>>> like CAPTCHAs for good reason but don't have a real sense of what to
>>>>> suggest
>>>>> as an
>>>>> alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:27:26 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to know what happened to spam filtering software or the
>>>>>> diligence of host administrators to block email and IP addresses from
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> these bot messages come.  If they enlisted the help of their 
>>>>>> customers
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> track this stuff down the use of captchas would be unnecessary. No 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be discriminated against. If more of their customers would use those
>>>>>> "Report
>>>>>> Abuse" links it would go a long way to reducing or eliminating the 
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> this kind of junk on Web sites. All the best.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 11:49 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fair point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Fri, 9/10/10, Chris Danielsen <cdanielsen8 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Chris Danielsen <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 5:42 AM
>>>>>>> Do you mean the concept of captchas
>>>>>>> in general, or visual captchas? I think
>>>>>>> advocacy groups have steered clear of opposing captchas
>>>>>>> because they are, in
>>>>>>> fact, a legitimate security mechanism to prevent a real
>>>>>>> threat. The question
>>>>>>> is how they should be designed. This is problematic because
>>>>>>> I can't think of
>>>>>>> a captcha that doesn't discriminate against somebody. The
>>>>>>> best ones are
>>>>>>> probably the simple logic puzzles, but even those probably
>>>>>>> discriminate
>>>>>>> against certain people with developmental disabilities. I
>>>>>>> guess the best we
>>>>>>> can hope for is a captcha that discriminates against as few
>>>>>>> people as
>>>>>>> possible, or, perhaps in the future, someone will invent a
>>>>>>> security
>>>>>>> mechanism that makes them unnecessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of John Ramsey
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:05 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have the answer to that one, but I am curious if
>>>>>>> any advocacy group
>>>>>>> has considered a cause of action because of these captias.
>>>>>>> I fail to see how
>>>>>>> they don't offend all of the recent cases regarding website
>>>>>>> accessibility.
>>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.O. Box 6063
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gainesville, FL 32627
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fax: (352) 240-6453
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This communication contains information that may be
>>>>>>> confidential and/or
>>>>>>> legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the
>>>>>>> individual or
>>>>>>> entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this
>>>>>>> communication in
>>>>>>> error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any
>>>>>>> associated printed
>>>>>>> materials and delete the electronic material from any
>>>>>>> computer. Please be
>>>>>>> aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication
>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>> communication or the information it contains may result in
>>>>>>> criminal and/or
>>>>>>> civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over
>>>>>>> the Internet,
>>>>>>> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are
>>>>>>> secure. If you are
>>>>>>> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use
>>>>>>> email to
>>>>>>> communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us
>>>>>>> immediately at (352)
>>>>>>> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must
>>>>>>> also be aware that email
>>>>>>> messages may be delayed or undelivered through
>>>>>>> circumstances beyond our
>>>>>>> control. Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:42 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So how can this new fangled audio captcha be
>>>>>>> accessed by the deaf-blind?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] UpDate on Linkedin website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good afternoon list members.
>>>>>>> I would like to up-date you on Linkedin. The log-in
>>>>>>> page has a different
>>>>>>> Captcha that works and is accessible. Once you enter
>>>>>>> in your log-in
>>>>>>> information, a page comes up and says: "please enter the
>>>>>>> two words shown
>>>>>>> above." The audio link comes up with a clear voice
>>>>>>> that says: "Please
>>>>>>> enter the following words. Do not worry if you have
>>>>>>> trouble, just enter
>>>>>>> your best Guess. You will here a number IE 5, then a
>>>>>>> word such as Saturday,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> then a number like 8 and then a word of less. If you
>>>>>>> do not enter in the
>>>>>>> numbers, you can still move forward to the next page and
>>>>>>> access your
>>>>>>> account.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.r
>>>>>>> r.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol.
>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
>>>>>>> of virus signature
>>>>>>> database 5439 (20100910) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
>>>>>>> of virus signature
>>>>>>> database 5439 (20100910) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
>>>>>>> of virus signature
>>>>>>> database 5439 (20100910) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>> account info for blindlaw:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tlfields2%40charter.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com
> 