[blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

Sat Dec 12 00:45:13 UTC 2015

Thank you Dawn. Someone has logic.

On 12/11/2015 7:29 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a simple question here.. Since when is a little pre planning equal to being afraid? When you look at a weather report before going to court, you plan ahead to have your rain jacket. That is pre-planning. Thinking ahead about what we might do in a active shooter situation, even if it never happens, doesn't have to be from fear.
>
> I have severe allergies and asthma, because of that I carry an Epi Pen and rescue inhaler with me, as precausions. I also had to be in close contact with the nursing and housekeeping staff before and during my time at guide dog training this summer. Pre-planning is something I need to do. It doesn't mean that the need is out of fear, or that I'll just stay at home so I don't take the risk that I may get sick. Btw, because of my planning, I didn't have any major issues while getting my new guide.
>
> I just wanted to make the point that planning ahead isn't as much about fear as you seem to be making it out to be. Having a plan and never needing to use it is great, being to proud to even consider that making a plan just in case, because you don't want to give the appearance of giving in to the fear mongering in the media just seems like flawed logic. I do agree with you about the media btw. I just figure, it's that same media that teaches us to worry about appearinces and when we worry about what not to do based on the media, as much to go against them, just because they blow things out of proportion, it can be as bad as following what they say without question.
>
> Dawn
>
> Dawn Benbow,
> Paralegal,
> Knitting business: WinterWarmKnits.com and
> Benbowknits.com
>
>
>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Keri:
>>
>> I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am
>> just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these situations
>> to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the minds
>> of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am obviously
>> not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound and
>> rational reason for not being so concerned.
>>
>> As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I will
>> be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many thunderstorms
>> in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having a
>> storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and walk
>> to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck by
>> lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at me
>> to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me.
>>
>> Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an
>> active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and never
>> fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could
>> dissuade from doing so.
>>
>> I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile accident
>> than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with others
>> every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could
>> dissuade from getting into a car.
>>
>> I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active
>> shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of
>> government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower.
>>
>> I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled lawyer,
>> George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and shot
>> numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go
>> into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and I
>> have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the
>> courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the day
>> of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott as
>> the courthouse was being evacuated.
>>
>> So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe as
>> much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are unsafe,
>> that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is an
>> illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the
>> mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these
>> events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend
>> that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease associating
>> with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into
>> automobiles and that you quit taking showers.
>>
>> Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype and
>> fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media.
>>
>> Daniel McBride
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via
>> blindlaw
>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Keri
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been
>> attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe
>> than sorry.
>>
>>
>>> On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote:
>>> Keri:
>>>
>>> The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense.
>>> This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda.
>>> Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater
>>> than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you
>>> have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media
>>> hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about
>>> lightning because nobody would pay attention.
>>>
>>> We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse
>>> daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into
>>> this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most
>>> convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have
>>> Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to
>>> induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these
>>> Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if
>>> you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are
>>> greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like
>>> a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance.
>>>
>>> To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active
>>> shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be
>>> statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying
>>> about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for
>>> that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your
>>> shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than
>>> being confronted by an active shooter.
>>>
>>> Daniel McBride
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri
>>> via blindlaw
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Keri
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>
>>> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For
>>> anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really
>> should.
>>> It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already
>>>> had a
>>> potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who
>>> had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and
>>> was actively evading security, suspected of being armed.  One of our
>>> then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch
>>> and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown.  We don't handle
>>> emergencies well as an organization, it seems.  Thus, trying to think
>> ahead.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Daniel
>>> McBride via blindlaw
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Daniel McBride <dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>
>>>> Dear List:
>>>>
>>>> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to
>>> point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are
>>> greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called
>>> active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns
>>> of being struck by lightning.
>>>> Daniel McBride
>>>> Fort Worth, Texas
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Shelley
>>> Richards via blindlaw
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Shelley Richards
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>
>>>> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea.  I would definitely
>>>> fit
>>> in one.  I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead
>>> of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to
>>> get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be.
>>>> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you
>>>> can
>>> get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be.
>>> I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has
>>> not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I
>>> just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to
>>> confidently.  Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with
>> me as well.
>>>> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for
>>>> a
>>> wheel chair user.  I would be interested in talking to some wheel
>>> chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with
>>> this type of situation.
>>>> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily
>>>> a
>>> good plan.  I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted
>>> assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely
>>> going to cause panic and chaos.  It is also such an unpredictable
>>> situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it
>>> happens.  Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else
>>> who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active
>> shooter situation.
>>>> Shelley Palmadessa
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan.  Being small, I
>>>>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if
>>>>> nothing else exists.  Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair
>>>>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is
>>>>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area.
>>>>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a
>>>>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small
>> elevators.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>
>>>>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared
>>>>> towards working with employees with disabilities.  So when we get
>>>>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place
>>>>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and
>>>>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond.  For
>>>>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight.
>>>>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as
>>>>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't
>>>>> going to be seen.
>>>>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to
>>>>> run or hide.  When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a
>>>>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible.
>>>>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a
>>>>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms.  They talk
>>>>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the
>>>>> doors don't lock.  They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the
>>>>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their
>>>>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of
>>>>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place.  And with regard to
>>>>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands,
>>>>> equipment, whatever,
>>>> to fight.
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Keri via blindlaw
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: Keri
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>
>>>>> That seems to be the most common.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker
>>>>>> look
>>>>> out for us.  Not exactly an empowering solution.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM
>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in
>>>>>> reading
>>>>> re: adaptations etc. suggested.
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ger
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions.
>>>>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real
>>>>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I
>>>>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to
>>>>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and
>> faculty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal
>>>>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that
>>>>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger
>>>>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>     Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or
>>>>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound.
>>>>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these
>> differences?
>>>>>>>> Does any such training even exist?
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Keri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> Keri
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Thank You
>>>> Shelley Palmadessa
>>>> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com
>>>>
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>> --
>> Keri
>>
>>
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-- 
Keri