[blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

Sat Dec 12 19:52:48 UTC 2015

Ronza,

With respect, I don't think this topic is inappropriate. Nor do I
think that the differing perspectives expressed passed the bounds of
appropriate debate or discussion.

Kind regards

Ger

On 12/12/15, Keri via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thank you Dawn. Someone has logic.
>
>
> On 12/11/2015 7:29 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a simple question here.. Since when is a little pre planning equal to
>> being afraid? When you look at a weather report before going to court, you
>> plan ahead to have your rain jacket. That is pre-planning. Thinking ahead
>> about what we might do in a active shooter situation, even if it never
>> happens, doesn't have to be from fear.
>>
>> I have severe allergies and asthma, because of that I carry an Epi Pen and
>> rescue inhaler with me, as precausions. I also had to be in close contact
>> with the nursing and housekeeping staff before and during my time at guide
>> dog training this summer. Pre-planning is something I need to do. It
>> doesn't mean that the need is out of fear, or that I'll just stay at home
>> so I don't take the risk that I may get sick. Btw, because of my planning,
>> I didn't have any major issues while getting my new guide.
>>
>> I just wanted to make the point that planning ahead isn't as much about
>> fear as you seem to be making it out to be. Having a plan and never
>> needing to use it is great, being to proud to even consider that making a
>> plan just in case, because you don't want to give the appearance of giving
>> in to the fear mongering in the media just seems like flawed logic. I do
>> agree with you about the media btw. I just figure, it's that same media
>> that teaches us to worry about appearinces and when we worry about what
>> not to do based on the media, as much to go against them, just because
>> they blow things out of proportion, it can be as bad as following what
>> they say without question.
>>
>> Dawn
>>
>> Dawn Benbow,
>> Paralegal,
>> Knitting business: WinterWarmKnits.com and
>> Benbowknits.com
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Keri:
>>>
>>> I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am
>>> just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these
>>> situations
>>> to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the
>>> minds
>>> of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am
>>> obviously
>>> not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound
>>> and
>>> rational reason for not being so concerned.
>>>
>>> As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I
>>> will
>>> be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many
>>> thunderstorms
>>> in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having
>>> a
>>> storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and
>>> walk
>>> to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck
>>> by
>>> lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at
>>> me
>>> to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me.
>>>
>>> Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an
>>> active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and
>>> never
>>> fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering
>>> could
>>> dissuade from doing so.
>>>
>>> I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile
>>> accident
>>> than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with
>>> others
>>> every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could
>>> dissuade from getting into a car.
>>>
>>> I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active
>>> shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of
>>> government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower.
>>>
>>> I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled
>>> lawyer,
>>> George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and
>>> shot
>>> numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go
>>> into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and
>>> I
>>> have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the
>>> courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the
>>> day
>>> of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott
>>> as
>>> the courthouse was being evacuated.
>>>
>>> So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe
>>> as
>>> much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are
>>> unsafe,
>>> that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is
>>> an
>>> illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the
>>> mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these
>>> events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend
>>> that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease
>>> associating
>>> with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into
>>> automobiles and that you quit taking showers.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype
>>> and
>>> fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media.
>>>
>>> Daniel McBride
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri
>>> via
>>> blindlaw
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Keri
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>
>>> Daniel,
>>>
>>> Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been
>>> attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe
>>> than sorry.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote:
>>>> Keri:
>>>>
>>>> The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense.
>>>> This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda.
>>>> Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater
>>>> than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you
>>>> have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media
>>>> hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about
>>>> lightning because nobody would pay attention.
>>>>
>>>> We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse
>>>> daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into
>>>> this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most
>>>> convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have
>>>> Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to
>>>> induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these
>>>> Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by
>>>> lightning.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if
>>>> you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are
>>>> greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like
>>>> a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance.
>>>>
>>>> To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active
>>>> shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be
>>>> statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying
>>>> about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for
>>>> that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your
>>>> shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than
>>>> being confronted by an active shooter.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel McBride
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri
>>>> via blindlaw
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Keri
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>
>>>> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For
>>>> anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really
>>> should.
>>>> It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>>> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already
>>>>> had a
>>>> potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who
>>>> had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and
>>>> was actively evading security, suspected of being armed.  One of our
>>>> then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch
>>>> and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown.  We don't handle
>>>> emergencies well as an organization, it seems.  Thus, trying to think
>>> ahead.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Daniel
>>>> McBride via blindlaw
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Daniel McBride <dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear List:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to
>>>> point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are
>>>> greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called
>>>> active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns
>>>> of being struck by lightning.
>>>>> Daniel McBride
>>>>> Fort Worth, Texas
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Shelley
>>>> Richards via blindlaw
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: Shelley Richards
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea.  I would definitely
>>>>> fit
>>>> in one.  I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead
>>>> of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to
>>>> get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be.
>>>>> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you
>>>>> can
>>>> get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be.
>>>> I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has
>>>> not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I
>>>> just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to
>>>> confidently.  Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide
>>>> with
>>> me as well.
>>>>> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for
>>>>> a
>>>> wheel chair user.  I would be interested in talking to some wheel
>>>> chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with
>>>> this type of situation.
>>>>> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily
>>>>> a
>>>> good plan.  I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted
>>>> assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely
>>>> going to cause panic and chaos.  It is also such an unpredictable
>>>> situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it
>>>> happens.  Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else
>>>> who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life
>>>> active
>>> shooter situation.
>>>>> Shelley Palmadessa
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan.  Being small, I
>>>>>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if
>>>>>> nothing else exists.  Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair
>>>>>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is
>>>>>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area.
>>>>>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a
>>>>>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small
>>> elevators.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared
>>>>>> towards working with employees with disabilities.  So when we get
>>>>>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place
>>>>>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and
>>>>>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond.  For
>>>>>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight.
>>>>>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as
>>>>>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't
>>>>>> going to be seen.
>>>>>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to
>>>>>> run or hide.  When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a
>>>>>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible.
>>>>>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a
>>>>>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms.  They talk
>>>>>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the
>>>>>> doors don't lock.  They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the
>>>>>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their
>>>>>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of
>>>>>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place.  And with regard to
>>>>>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands,
>>>>>> equipment, whatever,
>>>>> to fight.
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Keri via blindlaw
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Cc: Keri
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That seems to be the most common.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>>>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker
>>>>>>> look
>>>>>> out for us.  Not exactly an empowering solution.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in
>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>> re: adaptations etc. suggested.
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ger
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer
>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real
>>>>>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I
>>>>>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to
>>>>>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and
>>> faculty.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal
>>>>>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that
>>>>>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger
>>>>>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>>     Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or
>>>>>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound.
>>>>>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these
>>> differences?
>>>>>>>>> Does any such training even exist?
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
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>>>>>>>>> ma
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Keri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
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>>>>>>>> 4
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Keri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> Thank You
>>>>> Shelley Palmadessa
>>>>> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> --
>>> Keri
>>>
>>>
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>
> --
> Keri
>
>
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