[blindlaw] Embedded images in cases/other filings

Fri May 3 23:34:56 UTC 2019

Hi all,

This embedded image thing is becoming quite problematic. As an articling student I have already encountered PDF transcripts with an embedded audio file that I spent almost an hour researching how to open, and twice someone has emailed me a screenshot.

The first time this happened I was confused. I am using outlook on a windows machine with Jaws, and there was nothing there, not even an image or anything. It just looked like the entire email was blank. Then I checked the email using my phone and found the image file, but it just read as an image file. I tried sharing this file to the drop box account, but couldn't for some reason. I had to share it through a different email account, and then I was able to put it in the drop box. From there I could use my computer to grab the file, and then convert it using kurzwell. The entire process took 90 minutes, but about an hour of that was figuring all of this out for the first time. Nonetheless, it brings up a relevant point that was being made awhile ago. This is not billable work, but it needs to be done. How do we ensure that a system is in place that doesn't require excessive effort on our part, and that is fair. What standards need to be developed and enforced, and how will all of this relate to intellectual property, and corporate freedom. Now that I've passed the bar, I have time to ponder these larger issues.

All the best,
Ben 

Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Embedded images in cases/other filings
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Answers below:

Can you provide the contact for the Jaws specialists at Westlaw? Attached email. I have dealt most with Stephanie at present.

How much experience have you had with them? Moderate amount. I call/email if I notice anything peculiar with access or JAWS' behavior. I have been in contact with them for the past 6 years or so, bringing questions and issues to their attention. The one item I am still hoping Westlaw can address is the successful copying of cites from Westlaw into a word processor document. I feel there must be a way to do this!

Do you find that they are responsive and knowledgeable about a broad range of accessibility issues or are they more likely to just know the answers to a finite set of questions? They are very responsive and know the most about JAWS, how it operates, and what are the typical stumbling blocks for it. I understand that they have a laptop with JAWS installed to test out features, so any recommendations that they offer are grounded in reality. They seem to have more anecdotal knowledge about NVDA and Voice Over. As for other access technology or broader accessibility issues, I could not say because I have not had the occasion to ask about them.

The one caveat is that these two contacts are Westlaw reference attorneys, meaning that they are not IT people. However, they do work closely with IT and can communicate and demonstrate what is the experience of a JAWS user on Westlaw to IT.

Thanks for this suggestion! Here to serve.

On 5/2/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Ah, I understand. I think when file conversions happen from whatever is the
> word processor to final PDF or webpage, it could happen that the graphical
> content is coded in a way that just turns it into numbers and letters from
> JAWS' perspective. Westlaw, I agree, does not handle the tabular content
> well, and there is a way to render it into HTML code that JAWS could handle.
> I could let the Westlaw JAWS specialists know, but it helps if we have a
> bunch of people writing to them about the issue.
>
>
> It may be harder to deal with this in PDFs, because the table may end up
> looking like an image for JAWS, even though that same document in Word would
> have a table that JAWS could navigate. I suspect Adobe may have to visit its
> conversion processes if we were to make any progress on this.
>
> I am at a loss about screen shots other than gently telling people that it
> is not a productive format for the team because it is not a productive
> format for me. After a few emails saying I cannot read this, please
> describe, people do get the idea at my firm.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Wolk [mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 4:18 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Singh, Nandini
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Embedded images in cases/other filings
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing, exactly.  It's not
> the use of charts etc in the documents that's the problem.  It's the
> fact that, rather than having the actual chart, it is just an embedded
> image.  So Jaws just says "detected object" or, if you're reviewing in
> Westlaw "Image+giant string of numbers."  So, for instance, if you
> were to read the following in a case:
>
> "Plaintiff alleges that the defendant's actions caused him the
> following damages over the course of the relevant ten-year timeframe:
> Image2618294827328492.
> Plaintiff's calculations, however, are incorrect."
>
> You have no idea what the actual chart says, or what the purported
> damages were, because it's just a screenshot or an embedded image of
> whatever plaintiff submitted.
>
> Does that make more sense?
>
> On 5/2/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> To an extent, yes. I remember taking a legal writing course a few years
>> ago
>> that offered the multi-media approach to brief drafting. Our textbook
>> sampled a brief that had pictures of a monument, with the brief acting as
>> tour guide of the structure. That being said, the important legal points
>> could still be made sans pictures.
>>
>> I did not encounter too many embedded graphics or images in briefs when I
>> was clerking. The most notable case was a child pornography matter, where
>> the purportedly offending photograph was part of the appendix. I think
>> you
>> are not really talking about these types of briefs though.
>>
>> At my firm, we have a fairly traditional approach. Motions and briefs are
>> verbal. The main exception would be expert report submissions, which have
>> the entire range of visuals.
>>
>> The only other time that a table or chart is used in what I think is a
>> productive way occurs in indictments and sentencing reports involving
>> money
>> laundering or structuring criminal offenses. These graphics can be fairly
>> simple to negotiate, as their main purpose is to illustrate date, amount
>> of
>> money, and parties.
>>
>> I will say, however, for internal work product, people love using proof
>> charts and massive spreadsheets to create chronologies or summaries, i.e.
>> making bulleted lists within a cell of a table. I find it a bit weird,
>> since
>> this gets visually very cluttered based on input from my non-lawyer
>> friends.
>> I am also of the opinion that law is meant to be a literary profession,
>> so
>> all these charts, with their color coding and flow diagrams, may obscure
>> more than clarify.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura
>> Wolk
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 1:22 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Embedded images in cases/other filings
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I sort of figured it was only a matter of time until this happened,
>> but I've recently noticed a marked uptick in the number of embedded
>> images (unaccompanied by explanations) that have made their way into
>> cases and briefs I have been reading.  These aren't even always purely
>> pictures; they are oftentimes tables or other charts that easily could
>> be rendered in an accessible fashion or easily described in-text.  Has
>> anyone else noticed this?   I think this is going to be a problem of
>> increasing magnitude as the years go by and we should probably jump on
>> it sooner rather than later.
>>
>> Laura
>>
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