[blindLaw] Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law
tim at timeldermusic.com
tim at timeldermusic.com
Mon May 6 16:59:43 UTC 2024
A couple thoughts:
Clio is mostly usable for timekeeping purposes with JAWS. That said, I prefer the efficiency of keeping time records in Excel and importing a template spreadsheet into Clio each month. I can do it in Clio if I must.
My firm does not use Clios document storage system. My memory is that it needs to sync with another stand alone cloud document storage system. I suspect it wouldn't be an economical replacement for SharePoint and thus there would always be a work around outside of Clio's document viewing interface. I certainly wouldn't let Clio hold my client documents hostage without having a copy or original library stored somewhere else or an ability to do advanced collaboration on drafting in OneDrive or Dropbox. Maybe I am wrong about the current state of the cost of this service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Abhishek Dhol <abhishekdhol at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2024 5:54 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law
Dear Julie,
This is in response to your email about Clio’s accessibility and housing law. I hope that this response finds you well.
I unfortunately cannot give you an answer to your second question as I don’t have the requisite knowledge or experience. However, I hope that what I have to say about my own experience with Clio might be of some assistance to you.
1. I am in the third and final year of my law degree in the
jurisdiction of England and Wales (what you’d call a ‘2L’ in the United States).
2. I use NVDA rather than JAWS. Please take this into account in
reading my answer to your question.
3. An attempt—which was aborted very quickly—was made to get me to use
Clio for a law clinic experience working on British immigration and asylum law, where the clinic had been using Clio for a while, but had never had a blind student.
4. It was soon discovered, shortly after I began my clinic experience,
that an accessibility barrier, in conjunction with a rule/restriction it wasn’t possible to get around, would prevent me from using Clio.
5. For data protection reasons, clinic students can never download
documents off of the Clio server onto any device, but have to open it in online mode/in the cloud.
6. However we tried to get me to scroll using keyboard keys—page
up/down, up/down arrow—NVDA couldn’t access the button which would allow me to open the document in the cloud, but would skip straight passed it, meaning that my independence would have been compromised to a ridiculous
extent: a sighted person would have to click for me to open the document.
7. For this reason, my clinic case materials were moved onto
SharePoint—which is the platform I have been using for my clinic work all year—where the same restriction could be enforced accessibly.
8. An enquiry was made to Clio back in August 2023 asking about their
accessibility with NVDA. The response received at the time was that they didn’t know.
9. I know that this doesn’t seem very encouraging, which is why I hope
that someone with JAWS usage may have had a different experience which they will recount, but I am mentioning my experience for what it is worth, with the hope that it might be somewhat helpful, and that things have hopefully changed for the better.
Regards,
-Abhishek Dhol (he/him)
Third Year Bachelor of Laws (LLB) student – Queen Mary University of London
| Student Advisor at the University of London Refugee Law Clinic
Email:-
Personal - abhishekdhol at gmail.com
Official - a.dhol at hss21.qmul.ac.uk
Phone: +44 (0) 7933 2425 28
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhishek-dhol-b67612218/
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 1:01 PM <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> 1. 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative pathways to
> lawyer licensure approved by Washington Supreme Court
> (Nightingale, Noel)
> 2. Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law Investigations
> (Julie A. Orozco)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 16:01:28 +0000
> From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
> To: "blindlaw at nfbnet.org" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindLaw] 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative
> pathways to lawyer licensure approved by Washington Supreme
> Court
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> Some of you have expressed interest in this topic.
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> From: WSBA-CLE <cle at wsba.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 8:51 AM
> Subject: 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative pathways to
> lawyer licensure approved by Washington Supreme Court
>
>
>
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> WEBCAST
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> Credits:
>
>
> 1.5 Other CLE credits
>
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> https://wsba2.informz.net/wsba2/data/images/Seminars/WSBA_icon_dollars
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> Tuition:
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> Free
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> Alternative Pathways to Licensure<
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> Tuesday, May 14, 2024
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> 11:55 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.
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> WEBCAST
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> On March 15, the Washington Supreme Court filed a pair of Orders<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZ
> saT00NjI1Mzk4Nw/index.html> approving alternative pathways to lawyer
> licensure?including alternatives to the bar exam that are rigorous and
> involve skills-based demonstration of competency. The court also
> adopted the National Conference of Bar Examiners? NextGen<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZ
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> identified flaws in the current bar exam by focusing on real-world
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> Washington in summer 2026; for the other changes, there is no timeline
> yet.
>
>
>
> These pathways were recommended by the Washington Bar Licensure Task
> Force, chaired by Washington Supreme Court Justice Raquel
> Montoya-Lewis and Seattle University Law School Dean Anthony Varona.
> After more than three years of extensive study?bringing together data
> and research with testimony from scholars and experts?the Task Force
> found ?[T]he traditional bar exam is at best minimally effective for
> ensuring competent lawyers? while failing to account for modern
> pedagogy regarding testing. See Washington Courts News Release<
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> Join members of the Task Force for a 90-minute session to learn more
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> Faculty:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 14:34:55 -0400
> From: "Julie A. Orozco" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law
> Investigations
> Message-ID: <022201da9d88$a496cbb0$edc46310$@gmail.com>
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> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>
>
> I am including two separate questions in this email. First, I am
> starting a summer position with a legal services organization that
> uses Clio as their case management system. How accessible is Clio?
> What should I expect in terms of a learning curve? I use Jaws and have
> never worked with Clio before.
>
>
>
> Second, this position will give me some experience with housing law,
> including conducting investigations. I have never done this kind of
> work before, though I have some experience providing direct legal
> services through my university's law clinic. I am afraid of running
> into a situation where clients are sending me pictures, I have to use
> a lot of visual evidence to make decisions about cases, etc. I am also
> just nervous because this is my first job outside of school, and I know I have a lot to learn.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any experience and advice,
>
>
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
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