[blindLaw] Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law

Sat May 4 12:54:08 UTC 2024

Dear Julie,

This is in response to your email about Clio’s accessibility and housing
law. I hope that this response finds you well.

I unfortunately cannot give you an answer to your second question as I
don’t have the requisite knowledge or experience. However, I hope that what
I have to say about my own experience with Clio might be of some assistance
to you.

1.      I am in the third and final year of my law degree in the
jurisdiction of England and Wales (what you’d call a ‘2L’ in the United
States).

2.      I use NVDA rather than JAWS. Please take this into account in
reading my answer to your question.

3.      An attempt—which was aborted very quickly—was made to get me to use
Clio for a law clinic experience working on British immigration and asylum
law, where the clinic had been using Clio for a while, but had never had a
blind student.

4.      It was soon discovered, shortly after I began my clinic experience,
that an accessibility barrier, in conjunction with a rule/restriction it
wasn’t possible to get around, would prevent me from using Clio.

5.      For data protection reasons, clinic students can never download
documents off of the Clio server onto any device,  but have to open it in
online mode/in the cloud.

6.      However we tried to get me to scroll using keyboard keys—page
up/down, up/down arrow—NVDA couldn’t access the button which would allow me
to open the document in the cloud, but would skip straight passed it,
meaning that my independence would have been compromised to a ridiculous
extent: a sighted person would have to click for me to open the document.

7.      For this reason, my clinic case materials were moved onto
SharePoint—which is the platform I have been using for my clinic work all
year—where the same restriction could be enforced accessibly.

8.      An enquiry was made to Clio back in August 2023 asking about their
accessibility with NVDA. The response received at the time was that they
didn’t know.

9.      I know that this doesn’t seem very encouraging, which is why I hope
that someone with JAWS usage may have had a different experience which they
will recount, but I am mentioning my experience for what it is worth, with
the hope that it might be somewhat helpful, and that things have hopefully
changed for the better.

Regards,

-Abhishek Dhol (he/him)

Third Year Bachelor of Laws (LLB) student – Queen Mary University of London
| Student Advisor at the University of London Refugee Law Clinic

Email:-

Personal - abhishekdhol at gmail.com

Official - a.dhol at hss21.qmul.ac.uk

Phone: +44 (0) 7933 2425 28

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhishek-dhol-b67612218/
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 1:01 PM <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to
>         blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative pathways to
>       lawyer licensure approved by Washington Supreme Court
>       (Nightingale, Noel)
>    2. Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law Investigations
>       (Julie A. Orozco)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 16:01:28 +0000
> From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
> To: "blindlaw at nfbnet.org" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindLaw] 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative
>         pathways to lawyer licensure approved by Washington Supreme Court
> Message-ID:
>         <
> SA9PR09MB5454C24A832685F0ADD6AF59F91F2 at SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>             Some of you have expressed interest in this topic.
>
> From: WSBA-CLE <cle at wsba.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 8:51 AM
> Subject: 90-minute free CLE May 14 explains alternative pathways to lawyer
> licensure approved by Washington Supreme Court
>
>
>
> View this email in your browser.<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4NA/index.html
> >
>
> [WSBA-CLE Invested in your success]<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4NQ/index.html
> >
>
> [
> https://wsba2.informz.net/wsba2/data/images/iStock_000012926674_650x150.jpg?cb=938608
> ]<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4Ng/index.html
> >
>
>
> WEBCAST
>
>
> [
> https://wsba2.informz.net/wsba2/data/images/WSBA_icon_1.5credits.png?cb=305253
> ]
>
>
> Credits:
>
>
> 1.5 Other CLE credits
>
> [
> https://wsba2.informz.net/wsba2/data/images/Seminars/WSBA_icon_dollarsign.png?cb=130298
> ]
>
> Tuition:
>
>
> Free
>
> Alternative Pathways to Licensure<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4Ng/index.html
> >
>
>
> Tuesday, May 14, 2024
>
> 11:55 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.
>
> WEBCAST
>
>
> On March 15, the Washington Supreme Court filed a pair of Orders<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4Nw/index.html>
> approving alternative pathways to lawyer licensure?including alternatives
> to the bar exam that are rigorous and involve skills-based demonstration of
> competency. The court also adopted the National Conference of Bar
> Examiners? NextGen<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4OA/index.html>
> bar exam, which addresses many of the identified flaws in the current bar
> exam by focusing on real-world skills and practice. The NextGen bar exam
> will be implemented in Washington in summer 2026; for the other changes,
> there is no timeline yet.
>
>
>
> These pathways were recommended by the Washington Bar Licensure Task
> Force, chaired by Washington Supreme Court Justice Raquel Montoya-Lewis and
> Seattle University Law School Dean Anthony Varona. After more than three
> years of extensive study?bringing together data and research with testimony
> from scholars and experts?the Task Force found ?[T]he traditional bar exam
> is at best minimally effective for ensuring competent lawyers? while
> failing to account for modern pedagogy regarding testing. See Washington
> Courts News Release<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4OQ/index.html
> >.
>
>
>
> Join members of the Task Force for a 90-minute session to learn more about
> the alternative pathways to lawyer licensure and how the new options
> provide a means to demonstrate competency and protect the public while
> increasing availability of legal services.
>
>
>
> Faculty:
>
> Justice Raquel Montoya-Lewis ? Washington Supreme Court, Seattle, WA
>
> Dean Anthony Varona ? Seattle University School of Law, Seattle, WA
>
> Jordan Coach ? Palace Law, University Place, WA
>
> Brent Williams-Ruth ? WSBA Board of Governors, Seattle, WA
>
>
>
> Moderator:
>
> Renata Garcia ? Washington State Bar Association, Seattle, WA
>
>
>
> [
> https://wsba2.informz.net/wsba2/data/images/WSBA_icon_registernow_rightarrow_00466f.png?cb=193376
> ]<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4Ng/index.html
> >
>
> Register to attend<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk4Ng/index.html
> >.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For accessibility or accommodation requests, or other questions, please
> email cle at wsba.org<mailto:cle at wsba.org> or call 206-443-9722 (toll free:
> 800-945-9722).
>
>
>
> Please do not reply to this message. (Replies to this message are not
> monitored.) If you have questions please email cle at wsba.org<mailto:
> cle at wsba.org>.
>
>
> Get CLE credits anytime, anywhere, with WSBA recorded seminars. You'll
> find hundreds of selections on the CLE Store<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5MA/index.html
> >.
> <
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5MQ/index.html>[Man
> on laptop]<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5MQ/index.html
> ><
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5MQ/index.html
> >
>
>
> Washington State Bar Association
>
> 1325 Fourth Ave., Suite 600
>
> Seattle, WA 98101-2539 | Map<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5Mg/index.html
> >
>
> Unsubscribe<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnU9MzczNjQ3Njc4JmxpPTQ2MjUzOTkzJmw9aHR0cDovL3dzYmEyLmluZm9ybXoubmV0L3dzYmEyL3BhZ2VzL2RlZmF1bHRfdW5zdWJzY3JpYmU_X3pzPUtQMjFYfF96bWk9d1BMTA/index.html
> >
>
> [Higher Logic]<
> http://wsba2.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT00MTY5NTAyJnA9MSZ1PTM3MzY0NzY3OCZsaT00NjI1Mzk5NA/index.html
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 14:34:55 -0400
> From: "Julie A. Orozco" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility of Clio and Housing Law
>         Investigations
> Message-ID: <022201da9d88$a496cbb0$edc46310$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>
>
> I am including two separate questions in this email. First, I am starting a
> summer position with a legal services organization that uses Clio as their
> case management system. How accessible is Clio? What should I expect in
> terms of a learning curve? I use Jaws and have never worked with Clio
> before.
>
>
>
> Second, this position will give me some experience with housing law,
> including conducting investigations. I have never done this kind of work
> before, though I have some experience providing direct legal services
> through my university's law clinic. I am afraid of running into a situation
> where clients are sending me pictures, I have to use a lot of visual
> evidence to make decisions about cases, etc. I am also just nervous because
> this is my first job outside of school, and I know I have a lot to learn.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any experience and advice,
>
>
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 240, Issue 3
> ****************************************
>