[Blindmath] Math editing and conversion

Blind Collegian collegeandcareer at sbcglobal.net
Fri Feb 6 06:58:33 UTC 2009 

Hello everybody,
As John Garner originally replied with the idea of using the wiki sticks, it 
seems to work only in a situation where your answers to the mathematic 
problems  enclosed in graphs or diagrams are created that you, not just your 
teacher, can read. In other words, if I have to first illustrate my answers 
in Braille for me to be able to read (but not for the teacher to be able to 
read), I would then use wiki sticks to draw the lines, etc. On the other 
hand, if I have to make my answers legible to the sighted teacher by having 
a print copy of my answers on a sheet of paper, I would then have to create 
the graphs  (but I won't be able to see where my answers on the sheet are). 
Either way, it seems a transcriber/sighted person might be needed.
Again, thanks to everybody for the continued flow of valuable feedback.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Soiffer" <Neils at dessci.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion


> With the caveat that I'm not blind... I do like the idea of using Wikki
> Stixs.  They are cheap and readily available, and don't require a special
> surface.  My kids (who are not blind) used them for all sorts of things 
> and
> it was immediately obvious to me that they could be used for graphing, 
> etc.
>
> There are many sides to mathematics.  The algebraic side that involves
> pushing around symbols and abstract notions is very important, but so is 
> the
> analytic side, which often involves notions of continuity and how 
> functions
> change.  Being able to see/feel the minima, maxima, zero crossings, slope,
> etc., really adds a concreteness to algebraic expressions.  I'm pretty 
> sure
> wikki stixs, especially if combined with some grid background (eg, swell
> paper with a grid), would be a help students who are blind understand and
> create plots and graphs.  Plots and graphs really do serve a useful 
> function
> and aren't just eye candy.
>
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation
> Editor ~
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:36 PM, John Gardner <john.gardner at orst.edu> 
> wrote:
>
>> Graphing is the final unsolved problem for blind people.  Well at least 
>> as
>> far as information reading/authoring is concerned.  You can create graphs
>> on
>> the computer in many ways, including Excel and the ViewPlus Audio 
>> Graphing
>> Calculator (full disclosure - ViewPlus is my company).  And you can make
>> those accessible with a ViewPlus embosser.  There are several low tech 
>> ways
>> to make graphs by hand, such as using the APH Quick Draw paper, priced at
>> only $3/page.  Or with a Sewell drawing kit from Howe Press.
>>
>> The problem with all these methods is that you cannot erase and correct 
>> the
>> graph without redrawing the whole thing.  At this time, my best
>> recommendation is velcro and string for something "erasable".  Or with a
>> bit
>> more work, a felt pad and velcro strips.  I have heard of people using
>> tactile graph paper and some sticky string called something like sticky
>> wickis or wicki sticks that is purchased at art stores.  I've never used 
>> it
>> myself though.
>>
>> Whatever you do, if you are required to produce graphs for the benefit of
>> the faculty, you must be able to see those graphs.  Otherwise you have no
>> idea whether your sighted assistant is doing it right.  If the university
>> is
>> short on resources that are essential to your doing this, well, lack of
>> resources is not an excuse.  They must provide the minimum for your 
>> needs.
>> Happens to be a law in the US.
>>
>> John Gardner
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:23 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>>
>> Hello everybody,
>> I greatly appreciate the various suggestions on how to make doing math
>> effective and less time-consuming.
>> Does anyone have an idea what to do when your instructor wants you to 
>> work
>> with a sighted person on the portion of the course that deals with 
>> graphs?
>> I
>> told the professor I cannot do the drawing, all I can do is answer the
>> assigned problems in the textbook. But he wants me to find a way to
>> represent my answers in a graph. It just doesn't seem to be possible, is
>> it?
>>
>> Does LaTeX support graphing?
>> The biggest challenge is that none in the Math and Science Division seems
>> to
>> recognize LaTeX; instead, most utilize MathType only. Any suggestions? It
>> does not seem like there is a more uniform and efficient solution other
>> than
>> to struggle with various approaches. Additionally, what works for some
>> students does not work for others, in large part because not all
>> universities/colleges have the resources.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "P. R. Stanley" <prstanley at ntlworld.com>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>>
>>
>> > \Alternatively, typeset the whole thing in LaTeX using a simple text
>> > editor and, using the tex package from www.miktex.org, convert the code
>> to
>>
>> > a pro standard PDF for your sighted recipients.
>> > It only takes one command, "pdflatex filename.tex", to produce the PDF.
>> > It's that simple! No bug-ridden wysiwyg package, no need for a super
>> > computer to drive the software engine. it's light, efficient, free and
>> > there for the taking.
>> > Cheers
>> > Paul
>> > At 22:03 02/02/2009, you wrote:
>> >>The new version of MathType translates Latex in MS Word to displayed
>> >>visual
>> >>math.  You can just write a Latex equation, with $ signs around it, and
>> >>MathType gobbles it up and inserts an equation in its place.  Once
>> >>converted, you can get MathType to export Latex to the clipboard too.
>>  Not
>> >>really as usable as it could be, but better than nothing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> >>[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>On
>> >>Behalf Of Alastair Irving
>> >>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 10:04 AM
>> >>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>> >>
>> >>Hi
>> >>
>> >>I believe there exists at least 1 Nemeth to LaTeX translator.
>> >>Therefore, assuming you can save a braille file on your BrailleNote and
>> >>transfer it to a computer, (if it is saved as a .brf or similar then no
>> >>translation should occur), you could translate the nemeth to LaTeX and
>> >>then
>> >>compile the LaTeX to PDF.
>> >>
>> >>I don't know what level of maths is involved in your class, but for
>> fairly
>> >>simple algebra you could probably manage just using plain text, with ^
>> for
>> >>superscripts, / for fractions, etc.  The results obviously won't be as
>> >>pretty but its the most simple method provided things aren't too 
>> >>complex.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Alternatively, you could look at Chatty Infty, or the lambda project.
>> >>Both of these are editors designed for use by blind people doing
>> >>mathematics, and I know that at least Lambda has Braille support.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Personally, I work in LaTeX directly, using the LaTeX-access scripts to
>> >>aid
>> >>in reading, so have no actual experience of the above software.  If you
>> >>intend to do more Mathematics classes then I strongly advise learning
>> >>LaTeX,
>> >>it has a steeper learning curve than any of the above but the results 
>> >>are
>> >>definitely worth it, especially considering the volume of mathematical
>> >>documents written in LaTeX.
>> >>
>> >>Finally, I would suggest that if you're posting to the list in future
>> >>about
>> >>a new topic then you start a new message rather than replying to an old
>> >>one.
>> >>Even if you change the subject line, various mail headers are left 
>> >>which
>> >>refer to the initial thread, meaning that people using threaded
>> >>mailreaders
>> >>and also probably the archive will list your message as part of the old
>> >>thread.
>> >>
>> >>Alastair
>> >>
>> >>Blind Collegian wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > I registered for an Algebra class and my instructor is not familiar
>> >> > with LaTeX and wants to know if there are any means of doing math 
>> >> > more
>> >> > efficiently using a certain computer program to create math 
>> >> > equations
>> >> > and expressions.
>> >> > Is there a computer-based math program that does not have a lot of
>> >> > learning curve? I want to be able to use it in Braille and either
>> >> > print it or email it to the instructor.
>> >> > I have a BrailleNote, but at this point I do not have the ability to
>> >> > print Nemeth Code straight out of the device without any translation
>> >> > happening in the background. Any ay advice would be greatly
>> >> > appreciated.
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Williams"
>> >> > <robster3 at hotmail.com>
>> >> > To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>> >> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> >> > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:33 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Spss 16 nightmare
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Vincent,
>> >> >>  Yes, R can do everything that SPSS can do (almost certainly) and
>> >> >> probably more if you use the various freely-distributed packages
>> >> >> available. It is accessible to a large degree, especially if you 
>> >> >> run
>> >> >> the back-end terminal
>> >> >> (rterm.exe) found in the /bin directory.
>> >> >>  I don't know for sure, but there is almost certainly a plugin to
>> >> >> enable you to read SPSS files. Check out the r-project website. If 
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> am wrong and there isn't, just export the output to some common
>> >> >> format and import it with R.
>> >> >>  HTH
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Robin Williams.
>> >> >> Mobile:
>> >> >> 07525 809495
>> >> >> (Note: I have been giving an incorrect mobile number for the last
>> >> >> several months, please update your contact details).
>> >> >> Personal email and MSN:
>> >> >> robster3 at hotmail.com
>> >> >> University email (please use this address):
>> >> >> rmw205 at exeter.ac.uk
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> >> On
>> >> >> Behalf Of Jared Wright
>> >> >> Sent: 31 January 2009 22:20
>> >> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Spss 16 nightmare
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Vincent, Is your instructor not using the standard JDK distributed 
>> >> >> by
>> >> >> Sun for developing Java? If that's the compiler being used, and 
>> >> >> I've
>> >> >> no idea why it wouldn't be, you should be able to just compile from
>> >> >> the command line with javac. Of course, if you like the interactive
>> >> >> environment of Eclipse, that's another story but if it's merely
>> >> >> because of compilation problems, this might be preferable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Will be happy to help further off list, but I venture beyond the
>> >> >> scope of this community now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >> Jared
>> >> >>
>> >> >> vincent wrote:
>> >> >>> Hello:
>> >> >>> I am taking a quantitative research methods and Engineering
>> >> >>> Psychology
>> >> >> class
>> >> >>> this semester and both are requiring me to use SPSS version 16 to
>> >> >> calculate
>> >> >>> results.  I have done everything imaginable to make SPSS talk 
>> >> >>> enough
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >> me
>> >> >>> to use, but to no avail.  I have installed the old scripts and the
>> >> >>> Java access bridge.  It speaks somewhat, but not enough to truly
>> >>function.
>> >> >>> The
>> >> >>> disability services office took my advice and is going to provide 
>> >> >>> me
>> >> >>> a reader to read the screen for me, so I can at least complete my
>> >> >>> homework.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Does anyone know if the statistical package "R: can do the same
>> >> >>> things
>> >> >> that
>> >> >>> SPSS will do?  Also, will it read a .sav Spss file or will I have 
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> try
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>> export the data from the spss file.
>> >> >>> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, because I just don't
>> >> >>> have the time to do all the research this weekend myself.  I have 
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> spend time catching up in my JAVA programming class.  Of curse the
>> >> >>> compiler the
>> >> >> school
>> >> >>> is using was written in JAVA and does not speak enough to use.  I
>> >> >>> have
>> >> >> moved
>> >> >>> on to Eclipse and am happily coding away.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs,
>> >> >>> you'll be
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>> Man, my son!"
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Rudyard Kipling
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
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