[Blindmath] Math editing and conversion

Fri Feb 6 15:33:38 UTC 2009

Hi all,
I've submitted graphs using wicky sticks and my teachers haven't had a  
problem with it. It's multi-coloured so can be seen easily. I wouldn't  
recommend this at the college/university level though - I think it  
would look a little unprofessional, but high school is okay for it.
HTH,
Sarah

Quoting Blind Collegian <collegeandcareer at sbcglobal.net>:

> Hello everybody,
> As John Garner originally replied with the idea of using the wiki
> sticks, it seems to work only in a situation where your answers to the
> mathematic problems  enclosed in graphs or diagrams are created that
> you, not just your teacher, can read. In other words, if I have to
> first illustrate my answers in Braille for me to be able to read (but
> not for the teacher to be able to read), I would then use wiki sticks
> to draw the lines, etc. On the other hand, if I have to make my answers
> legible to the sighted teacher by having a print copy of my answers on
> a sheet of paper, I would then have to create the graphs  (but I won't
> be able to see where my answers on the sheet are). Either way, it seems
> a transcriber/sighted person might be needed.
> Again, thanks to everybody for the continued flow of valuable feedback.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Soiffer" <Neils at dessci.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>
>
>> With the caveat that I'm not blind... I do like the idea of using Wikki
>> Stixs.  They are cheap and readily available, and don't require a special
>> surface.  My kids (who are not blind) used them for all sorts of things and
>> it was immediately obvious to me that they could be used for graphing, etc.
>>
>> There are many sides to mathematics.  The algebraic side that involves
>> pushing around symbols and abstract notions is very important, but so is the
>> analytic side, which often involves notions of continuity and how functions
>> change.  Being able to see/feel the minima, maxima, zero crossings, slope,
>> etc., really adds a concreteness to algebraic expressions.  I'm pretty sure
>> wikki stixs, especially if combined with some grid background (eg, swell
>> paper with a grid), would be a help students who are blind understand and
>> create plots and graphs.  Plots and graphs really do serve a useful function
>> and aren't just eye candy.
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>> Senior Scientist
>> Design Science, Inc.
>> www.dessci.com
>> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation
>> Editor ~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:36 PM, John Gardner <john.gardner at orst.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Graphing is the final unsolved problem for blind people.  Well at least as
>>> far as information reading/authoring is concerned.  You can create graphs
>>> on
>>> the computer in many ways, including Excel and the ViewPlus Audio Graphing
>>> Calculator (full disclosure - ViewPlus is my company).  And you can make
>>> those accessible with a ViewPlus embosser.  There are several low tech ways
>>> to make graphs by hand, such as using the APH Quick Draw paper, priced at
>>> only $3/page.  Or with a Sewell drawing kit from Howe Press.
>>>
>>> The problem with all these methods is that you cannot erase and correct the
>>> graph without redrawing the whole thing.  At this time, my best
>>> recommendation is velcro and string for something "erasable".  Or with a
>>> bit
>>> more work, a felt pad and velcro strips.  I have heard of people using
>>> tactile graph paper and some sticky string called something like sticky
>>> wickis or wicki sticks that is purchased at art stores.  I've never used it
>>> myself though.
>>>
>>> Whatever you do, if you are required to produce graphs for the benefit of
>>> the faculty, you must be able to see those graphs.  Otherwise you have no
>>> idea whether your sighted assistant is doing it right.  If the university
>>> is
>>> short on resources that are essential to your doing this, well, lack of
>>> resources is not an excuse.  They must provide the minimum for your needs.
>>> Happens to be a law in the US.
>>>
>>> John Gardner
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:23 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>>>
>>> Hello everybody,
>>> I greatly appreciate the various suggestions on how to make doing math
>>> effective and less time-consuming.
>>> Does anyone have an idea what to do when your instructor wants you to work
>>> with a sighted person on the portion of the course that deals with graphs?
>>> I
>>> told the professor I cannot do the drawing, all I can do is answer the
>>> assigned problems in the textbook. But he wants me to find a way to
>>> represent my answers in a graph. It just doesn't seem to be possible, is
>>> it?
>>>
>>> Does LaTeX support graphing?
>>> The biggest challenge is that none in the Math and Science Division seems
>>> to
>>> recognize LaTeX; instead, most utilize MathType only. Any suggestions? It
>>> does not seem like there is a more uniform and efficient solution other
>>> than
>>> to struggle with various approaches. Additionally, what works for some
>>> students does not work for others, in large part because not all
>>> universities/colleges have the resources.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "P. R. Stanley" <prstanley at ntlworld.com>
>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>>>
>>>
>>>> \Alternatively, typeset the whole thing in LaTeX using a simple text
>>>> editor and, using the tex package from www.miktex.org, convert the code
>>> to
>>>
>>>> a pro standard PDF for your sighted recipients.
>>>> It only takes one command, "pdflatex filename.tex", to produce the PDF.
>>>> It's that simple! No bug-ridden wysiwyg package, no need for a super
>>>> computer to drive the software engine. it's light, efficient, free and
>>>> there for the taking.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Paul
>>>> At 22:03 02/02/2009, you wrote:
>>>>> The new version of MathType translates Latex in MS Word to displayed
>>>>> visual
>>>>> math.  You can just write a Latex equation, with $ signs around it, and
>>>>> MathType gobbles it up and inserts an equation in its place.  Once
>>>>> converted, you can get MathType to export Latex to the clipboard too.
>>> Not
>>>>> really as usable as it could be, but better than nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org   
>>>>> >>[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Alastair Irving
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math editing and conversion
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe there exists at least 1 Nemeth to LaTeX translator.
>>>>> Therefore, assuming you can save a braille file on your BrailleNote and
>>>>> transfer it to a computer, (if it is saved as a .brf or similar then no
>>>>> translation should occur), you could translate the nemeth to LaTeX and
>>>>> then
>>>>> compile the LaTeX to PDF.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what level of maths is involved in your class, but for
>>> fairly
>>>>> simple algebra you could probably manage just using plain text, with ^
>>> for
>>>>> superscripts, / for fractions, etc.  The results obviously won't be as
>>>>> pretty but its the most simple method provided things aren't too complex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, you could look at Chatty Infty, or the lambda project.
>>>>> Both of these are editors designed for use by blind people doing
>>>>> mathematics, and I know that at least Lambda has Braille support.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I work in LaTeX directly, using the LaTeX-access scripts to
>>>>> aid
>>>>> in reading, so have no actual experience of the above software.  If you
>>>>> intend to do more Mathematics classes then I strongly advise learning
>>>>> LaTeX,
>>>>> it has a steeper learning curve than any of the above but the
>>> results >>are
>>>>> definitely worth it, especially considering the volume of mathematical
>>>>> documents written in LaTeX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, I would suggest that if you're posting to the list in future
>>>>> about
>>>>> a new topic then you start a new message rather than replying to an old
>>>>> one.
>>>>> Even if you change the subject line, various mail headers are   
>>>>> left >>which
>>>>> refer to the initial thread, meaning that people using threaded
>>>>> mailreaders
>>>>> and also probably the archive will list your message as part of the old
>>>>> thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alastair
>>>>>
>>>>> Blind Collegian wrote:
>>>>> > Hello,
>>>>> > I registered for an Algebra class and my instructor is not familiar
>>>>> > with LaTeX and wants to know if there are any means of doing
>>> math >> > more
>>>>> > efficiently using a certain computer program to create math >> >
>>> equations
>>>>> > and expressions.
>>>>> > Is there a computer-based math program that does not have a lot of
>>>>> > learning curve? I want to be able to use it in Braille and either
>>>>> > print it or email it to the instructor.
>>>>> > I have a BrailleNote, but at this point I do not have the ability to
>>>>> > print Nemeth Code straight out of the device without any translation
>>>>> > happening in the background. Any ay advice would be greatly
>>>>> > appreciated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Williams"
>>>>> > <robster3 at hotmail.com>
>>>>> > To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>>>>> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:33 AM
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Spss 16 nightmare
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Vincent,
>>>>> >>  Yes, R can do everything that SPSS can do (almost certainly) and
>>>>> >> probably more if you use the various freely-distributed packages
>>>>> >> available. It is accessible to a large degree, especially if
>>> you >> >> run
>>>>> >> the back-end terminal
>>>>> >> (rterm.exe) found in the /bin directory.
>>>>> >>  I don't know for sure, but there is almost certainly a plugin to
>>>>> >> enable you to read SPSS files. Check out the r-project website.
>>> If >> >> I
>>>>> >> am wrong and there isn't, just export the output to some common
>>>>> >> format and import it with R.
>>>>> >>  HTH
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Robin Williams.
>>>>> >> Mobile:
>>>>> >> 07525 809495
>>>>> >> (Note: I have been giving an incorrect mobile number for the last
>>>>> >> several months, please update your contact details).
>>>>> >> Personal email and MSN:
>>>>> >> robster3 at hotmail.com
>>>>> >> University email (please use this address):
>>>>> >> rmw205 at exeter.ac.uk
>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> >> On
>>>>> >> Behalf Of Jared Wright
>>>>> >> Sent: 31 January 2009 22:20
>>>>> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Spss 16 nightmare
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Vincent, Is your instructor not using the standard JDK
>>> distributed >> >> by
>>>>> >> Sun for developing Java? If that's the compiler being used,   
>>>>> and >> I've
>>>>> >> no idea why it wouldn't be, you should be able to just compile from
>>>>> >> the command line with javac. Of course, if you like the interactive
>>>>> >> environment of Eclipse, that's another story but if it's merely
>>>>> >> because of compilation problems, this might be preferable.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Will be happy to help further off list, but I venture beyond the
>>>>> >> scope of this community now.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Best,
>>>>> >> Jared
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> vincent wrote:
>>>>> >>> Hello:
>>>>> >>> I am taking a quantitative research methods and Engineering
>>>>> >>> Psychology
>>>>> >> class
>>>>> >>> this semester and both are requiring me to use SPSS version 16 to
>>>>> >> calculate
>>>>> >>> results.  I have done everything imaginable to make SPSS   
>>>>> talk >>> enough
>>>>> >>> for
>>>>> >> me
>>>>> >>> to use, but to no avail.  I have installed the old scripts and the
>>>>> >>> Java access bridge.  It speaks somewhat, but not enough to truly
>>>>> function.
>>>>> >>> The
>>>>> >>> disability services office took my advice and is going to
>>> provide >> >>> me
>>>>> >>> a reader to read the screen for me, so I can at least complete my
>>>>> >>> homework.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Does anyone know if the statistical package "R: can do the same
>>>>> >>> things
>>>>> >> that
>>>>> >>> SPSS will do?  Also, will it read a .sav Spss file or will I
>>> have >> >>> to
>>>>> >>> try
>>>>> >> and
>>>>> >>> export the data from the spss file.
>>>>> >>> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, because I just don't
>>>>> >>> have the time to do all the research this weekend myself.  I
>>> have >> >>> to
>>>>> >>> spend time catching up in my JAVA programming class.  Of curse the
>>>>> >>> compiler the
>>>>> >> school
>>>>> >>> is using was written in JAVA and does not speak enough to use.  I
>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> >> moved
>>>>> >>> on to Eclipse and am happily coding away.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs,
>>>>> >>> you'll be
>>>>> >> a
>>>>> >>> Man, my son!"
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Rudyard Kipling
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >> edm%40g
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> mail.com
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
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>>>>> >>
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>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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