[Blindmath] Mathematical document accessibility

Fri Mar 13 21:01:00 UTC 2009

Well if math tags are adopted as "rapidly" as are the more standard
accessibility tags, then we have lots of long cold days.  So my advice is
not to count on PDF math being accessible and you'll not be disappointed.
Maybe be pleased when you find one that is accessible some day.  
John

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Neil Soiffer
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:57 AM
To: r_akshi_tgk at yahoo.com; Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Mathematical document accessibility

There will be few cold winters before the PDFs become accessible.  The big
problem is getting the PDF  generators to add the appropriate tagging.  Some
people are working on this for pdftex (the chief source of tex-to-pdf
documents), but it will be a while before the tagging gets in there and the
new release is widely used.

Neil Soiffer
Senior Scientist
Design Science, Inc.
www.dessci.com
~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation
Editor ~

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Roopakshi Pathania
<r_akshi_tgk at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> Hi Theodor,
>
> PDF documents with mathematics are hopefully soon going to be accessible.
> This is because Design Science is developing a MathMl plugin for PDF 
> documents that will be similar to MathPlayer.
> For more information, see this post.
>
> http://accessiblemath.dessci.com/2008/11/pdf-math-accessibility-contin
> ues-move-toward-iso-standardization.html
>
> Regards
>
>
> --- On Fri, 3/13/09, Theodor Loots <theo.loots at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Theodor Loots <theo.loots at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Mathematical document accessibility
> > To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 5:07 PM Hi Michael,
> >
> > The liblouis project is currently in the process of adding BAUK 
> > support, so I guess if you can contribute in any way, it will 
> > greatly be appreciated.
> >
> > My greatest need concerning math documents is probably support for 
> > PDF's...
> > This however, is wishful thinking I presume...
> >
> > t
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> > Sent: 13 March 2009 11:01 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Mathematical document accessibility
> >
> > First of all to say I would primarily be aiming for BAUK as that is 
> > what I know. Please read the rest with that in mind.
> >
> > Am I write in thinking that liblouis/liblouisxml still doesn't 
> > support BAUK maths? I remember having a look at adding it some time 
> > ago but either I didn't understand the table system of liblouis or 
> > it was just not going to be able to support BAUK maths (either way I 
> > wasn't able to do anything to it to get satisfactory results). As 
> > for connecting to something like liblouisxml, as I primarily work on 
> > linux I might be tempted to look at java's stuff for connecting with 
> > C++ (I think JNI), unless anyone else can tell me that com on linux 
> > is really easy to set up.
> >
> > I have heard people mention UMCL but I haven't really seen any of 
> > its work, how does that compare?
> >
> > Michael Whapples
> > On 13/03/09 05:45, Neil Soiffer wrote:
> > > I'm not aware of Java-based MathML-to-Braille
> > translators, but there is
> > > liblious (C++, http://code.google.com/p/liblouis/) and
> > UMCL (XSLT).  Both
> > > have COM bindings that allow you to call them from
> > other languages.
> > > Essentially, that means you just need to give them the
> > MathML and they
> > give
> > > you back a Braille translation.  I think that the COM
> > part has only been
> > > compiled for Windows, but COM is supported on the Mac
> > and probably linux
> > and
> > > they probably would work there also:
> > >
> >
> http://unix.ittoolbox.com/documents/component-object-model-com-develop
> ment-o
> > n-mac-os-x-16688
> > >
> > > Neil Soiffer
> > > Senior Scientist
> > > Design Science, Inc.
> > > www.dessci.com
> > > ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy,
> > WebEQ, Equation
> > > Editor ~
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Michael
> > Whapples<mwhapples at aim.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hello,
> > >> After going quiet for a a bit I have decided as
> > there's not much else
> > going
> > >> on for me I should get back to trying to work on
> > my maths to Braille
> > >> translator (BrlTex), except I've decided to
> > take a look at things before
> > >> diving back into it. In fact this may mean
> > starting something new instead
> > of
> > >> trying to work on the old BrlTex ideas.
> > >>
> > >> The first question is where are things and what is
> > actually needed? What
> > is
> > >> the state of mathml, accessibility of mathml, etc
> > and is there still such
> > a
> > >> great need for LaTeX? I know also people new to
> > LaTeX say it can be hard
> > to
> > >> get started with, so might a simpler authoring
> > system be desireable (eg.
> > >> RestructureText (RST) from the python docutils
> > (http://docutils.sf.net))
> > >> with may be an extension for math (may be using
> > LaTeX inside a math
> > >> directive, I think that should be possible).
> > >>
> > >> Currently for BrlTex I am using plasTeX
> > (http://plastex.sf.net). This
> > >> seems to work reasonably well for the LaTeX
> > processing (I don't think I
> > had
> > >> any problems with it on well formed LaTeX files
> > except for one which was
> > >> pretty awful to read anyway and did fail even with
> > one of the main LaTeX
> > >> compilers (something like it worked with the latex
> > command but not
> > pdflatex
> > >> or the other way round)). However I feel plasTeX
> > will limit me to latex
> > >> files unless I create an internal representation
> > system for BrlTex which
> > >> might get too much for me.
> > >>
> > >> The alternative, and why I asked about mathml, is
> > that I now know java so
> > >> wondered what TeX/LaTeX stuff is there for java
> > and I stumbled over
> > >> snuggletex (www.ph.ed.ac.uk/snuggletex) which is a
> > LaTeX to mathml
> > >> translation library. Now if I were to create a
> > mathml Braille translator
> > >> then I possibly get LaTeX support nearly for free
> > by using snuggletex as
> > an
> > >> input filter. Any open source java based mathml
> > Braille translators worth
> > me
> > >> looking at to save on my work? Also this design
> > would permit dropping the
> > >> intermediate (between LaTeX and Braille) as a
> > MathML file. Also with the
> > >> correct design then may be other outputs would be
> > possible, eg. daisy
> > book
> > >> format, etc.
> > >>
> > >> Java is also tempting for other reasons, eg. swing
> > and SWT for the GUI
> > are
> > >> cross platform compatible (I haven't found
> > anything which really matches
> > >> either of these in python), other standard
> > interface systems such as web
> > >> applications using J2EE (I know python can be used
> > for web applications
> > but
> > >> I think it depends on what system you choose,
> > there isn't a single
> > obvious
> > >> choice), etc.
> > >>
> > >> So any thoughts on the above or any other
> > suggestions.
> > >>
> > >> Michael Whapples
> > >>
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> > m
> > >>
> > >>
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