[Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

Tue Mar 17 15:51:30 UTC 2009

I agree with you Jared that at the post-secondary level there is a huge gap
not being filled. 
That is one reason I find this mailing list very interesting.
I am one link in providing my student with the tools to succeed only to find
out no one knows how to use them at the college level.
Also, it was me who pursued learning Nemeth, Computer, and Music Braille. I
received no training from the school district for any of that but I did it
to help my student be successful because to me that is my job, not
transcribing that is just a small part of the entire process.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:43 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

The problem is that at the post-secondary level, a Braille-aware 
transcriber is just not a guarantee. I'm the only person on this campus 
that knows any Braille past the most cursory introduction to literary. 
For Technical and music notation there has been noone other than me that 
could even start to read or write Braille. I'd be delighted to hear this 
is an isolated case, but I suspect otherwise. I've always been real 
bothered that they claim here to be able to serve a student using all 
adaptive materials and yet possess no ability outside of the student 
himself to review those adaptive materials. Seems like I should get a 
break on tuition at least for doing what they're supposedly getting a 
check for. But I digress. I employed a similar method to the one you 
outline din high school when there was always an intermediary that 
understood both the printed and Braille math. But at college, there just 
isn't that kind of expertise, and you have to do the legwork yourself in 
my experiences.

Jared

On 3/17/2009 8:17 AM, Connie Baker wrote:
> It actually takes us about 5 mins to go through a document and find the
> computer Braille symbols. Although, after 5 years of using the PacMate we
> both know the most common symbols that will be messed up in a print
> document. I then ask the student what they intended for that problem and
> they read the Braille display for me. I make the changes in the print
> document before having them print it out for the teacher.
>
> Your school's transcriber should be knowledgeable in Literary Braille,
> Nemeth Braille, and Computer Braille. I learned all these for the student
I
> work with as well as music Braille when they decided to join the school
> band.
>
> When it comes to copying the problems and the corresponding number and
then
> working them I will do:
> 1. copy the problems ahead of time into an RTF file and save it on the
thumb
> drive, then the student converts it to a BRF file and works them out
during
> class with their sighted peers
>
> 2. if I do not know about the assignment ahead of time, I will read the
> problems to the student, they can work each problem then or I read all of
> the problems to them so if they do not finish during class and it becomes
> homework, they have all the work ready and then they do not need to take
the
> book home, just their PacMate
>
> The teacher, VI teacher, and parent do not feel I am hindering this
student
> by preparing the problems ahead or by reading them when necessary. It is
> very tedious task for them to do on their own, especially if there are
> several problems. If there are only a few for example, up to 10 depending
on
> the complexity, like Algebra or Geometry they will copy the problems
> themselves.
>
> Hope some of this is useful to you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:32 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>
> Hi,
> I also use the PAC Mate. You indicate that it takes the student about 5
> minutes to go through the process of checking to make sure all the symbols
> produced using the student's device makes sense. My school's transcriber
is
> not skilled in nemeth Code, so unfortunately it leaves me having to use a
> standard text editor to produce my work. I know that sounds odd, but LaTeX
> and other programs I contemplated on using are not among the options the
> professors have, at least for now.
> Also, does your student have to copy the problems and their corresponding
> numbers from the textbook before showing how he/she solved the problem?
> Spatial math on any device like the PAC mate can be time consuming.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Connie Baker"<cnsbaker at access.k12.wv.us>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>
>
>    
>> Maybe it is due to the knowledge your Braille transcriber knows about
>> Nemeth
>> and computer Braille.
>>
>> My student uses a PacMate to do their math assignments. Before printing
>> the
>> final copy to give to their teacher, we go through the document together.
>> I
>> find the computer Braille symbols and they read what they meant to be
>> there
>> using their Braille display and make the necessary corrections. This
takes
>> about 5 minutes to complete.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 10:16 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>
>> Hi,
>> I appreciate your input. However, my statement regarding nemeth Code
>> making
>> no sense to a naked eye was meant to refer to my math professor, who
>> stated
>> that the printout cannot be discerned, so I gave up. However, a certified
>> Braille transcriber whom I spoke with said the work I created in Nemeth
>> Code
>>
>> on the BrailleNote "made perfect sense". I wonder why the discrepancy.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Susan Jolly"<easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
>> To:<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:04 PM
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>
>>
>>      
>>> I disagree with the claim about Nemeth math printed out from a
BrailleNote
>>> making "no sense to the naked
>>> eye."
>>>
>>> If you print out Nemeth math from a BrailleNote in the original computer
>>> braille (not backtranslated) it will show up as ASCII characters.  It
>>> shouldn't take a math-knowledgeable sighted person more than a few
>>> minutes
>>> to learn to read it.  (The reason is much of computer braille was based
>>> on
>>> Nemeth math. For example, the digits and common symbols such as the plus
>>> sign are identical.) Here's an article I wrote several years ago on this
>>> topic that you might want to pass along to your teachers.
>>> http://www.dotlessbraille.org/readnem.htm
>>>
>>> I'm glad to correspond with any sighted persons who need more help than
>>> is
>>> in my article.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> SusanJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
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