[Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

Tue Mar 17 16:09:56 UTC 2009

I agree that dictating gets complicated and in my experience, can be very
time consuming.
I tried that and found that I was saying things like:

"Was that a bracket or a parenthesis within a bracket?"
"Did you mean 'times' or the variable 'x'?"
"Did you want that to be a power to the number or variable?"
"What digit do you want the next line to begin under?"

And those questions were for the basic Algebra problems and not the complex
ones.

It took much longer using that method then scanning a document looking for
the Braille symbols and asking for clarification from the student.
I also know that method isn't the best scenario either.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Blind Collegian
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

I think dictating the math to the transcriber sounds a good alternative. But
isn't it time consuming to do certain math problems that are not easily
dictated? For example, my professor asked me to do sets of long division
containing variables. It seems it is easier done on paper than a device like
the Pacmate, unless I use the six-dot keyboard to work with long divisions
and other math problems requiring lengthy step-by-step problem solving. In
this case, trying to dictate the whole process of slving the indicated
problems gets complicated. For that reason, I had to show my work by
manually transcribing the outcome to avoid mistakes with dictating.
I wish I was fully prepared to use LaTeX but as I said before, nobody in the
Science and math Dept I knew of used it, which discouraged me from learning
it. But it seems it is a necessity for me to gain a full grasp of LaTeX to
use in the future.
Thanks,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

> Perhaps if you just spoke your math from the PackMate to your transcriber?
> It's far from ideal, but probably better than doing it the other way. Like
> I and others have said, if you're transcribing already you might as well
> start transcribing in laTeX and cut the transcriber out completely, just
> turning in compiled LaTeX. We've had a fairly detailed discussion about
> LaTeX and its potential trip-ups, but just now finishing up the Calculus
> series of courses, I can say that LaTeX source compiled into PDF or HTML
> was sufficient for every professor I worked with. if learning LaTeX source
> is out of the question though, you might find your time used more
> efficiently to just dictate to your transcriber rather than actually doing
> an extra layer of manual transcribtion.
>
> Just, yaknow, for what it's worth. *smile*
>
> Jared
>
> On 3/16/2009 12:31 PM, Blind Collegian wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I also use the PAC Mate. You indicate that it takes the student about 5
>> minutes to go through the process of checking to make sure all the
>> symbols
>> produced using the student's device makes sense. My school's transcriber
>> is
>> not skilled in nemeth Code, so unfortunately it leaves me having to use a
>> standard text editor to produce my work. I know that sounds odd, but
>> LaTeX
>> and other programs I contemplated on using are not among the options the
>> professors have, at least for now.
>> Also, does your student have to copy the problems and their corresponding
>> numbers from the textbook before showing how he/she solved the problem?
>> Spatial math on any device like the PAC mate can be time consuming.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Connie Baker"
>> <cnsbaker at access.k12.wv.us>
>> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>
>>
>>> Maybe it is due to the knowledge your Braille transcriber knows about
>>> Nemeth
>>> and computer Braille.
>>>
>>> My student uses a PacMate to do their math assignments. Before printing
>>> the
>>> final copy to give to their teacher, we go through the document
>>> together.
>>> I
>>> find the computer Braille symbols and they read what they meant to be
>>> there
>>> using their Braille display and make the necessary corrections. This
>>> takes
>>> about 5 minutes to complete.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 10:16 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I appreciate your input. However, my statement regarding nemeth Code
>>> making
>>> no sense to a naked eye was meant to refer to my math professor, who
>>> stated
>>> that the printout cannot be discerned, so I gave up. However, a
>>> certified
>>> Braille transcriber whom I spoke with said the work I created in Nemeth
>>> Code
>>>
>>> on the BrailleNote "made perfect sense". I wonder why the discrepancy.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Jolly"
>>> <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
>>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:04 PM
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>>
>>>
>>>> I disagree with the claim about Nemeth math printed out from a
>>>> BrailleNote
>>>> making "no sense to the naked
>>>> eye."
>>>>
>>>> If you print out Nemeth math from a BrailleNote in the original
>>>> computer
>>>> braille (not backtranslated) it will show up as ASCII characters.  It
>>>> shouldn't take a math-knowledgeable sighted person more than a few
>>>> minutes
>>>> to learn to read it.  (The reason is much of computer braille was based
>>>> on
>>>> Nemeth math. For example, the digits and common symbols such as the
>>>> plus
>>>> sign are identical.) Here's an article I wrote several years ago on
>>>> this
>>>> topic that you might want to pass along to your teachers.
>>>> http://www.dotlessbraille.org/readnem.htm
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad to correspond with any sighted persons who need more help than
>>>> is
>>>> in my article.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> SusanJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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