[Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

Wed Mar 18 00:08:54 UTC 2009

I also happen to be a student at this school whose alternate media 
specialist does not even know Braille, nor does anyone else (except one 
blind counselor) who work at the Disabled Student Program. The alternate 
media specialist was taking classes to learn to better serve me and others 
while also doing some transcribing. When errors with the math book occur, 
you have to describe the particular errors so that the school refers them to 
the transcribing agency, which takes several days to get resolved.
Some schools have told me they have better services for the blind and have 
"trained specialists" who know various forms of Braille. However, once you 
meet the "specialist," they will often admit they do not know Braille, 
except maybe Grade 1 Braille. Nevertheless, it seems there are many bright 
students of math on this forum.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math

> The problem is that at the post-secondary level, a Braille-aware 
> transcriber is just not a guarantee. I'm the only person on this campus 
> that knows any Braille past the most cursory introduction to literary. For 
> Technical and music notation there has been noone other than me that could 
> even start to read or write Braille. I'd be delighted to hear this is an 
> isolated case, but I suspect otherwise. I've always been real bothered 
> that they claim here to be able to serve a student using all adaptive 
> materials and yet possess no ability outside of the student himself to 
> review those adaptive materials. Seems like I should get a break on 
> tuition at least for doing what they're supposedly getting a check for. 
> But I digress. I employed a similar method to the one you outline din high 
> school when there was always an intermediary that understood both the 
> printed and Braille math. But at college, there just isn't that kind of 
> expertise, and you have to do the legwork yourself in my experiences.
>
> Jared
>
> On 3/17/2009 8:17 AM, Connie Baker wrote:
>> It actually takes us about 5 mins to go through a document and find the
>> computer Braille symbols. Although, after 5 years of using the PacMate we
>> both know the most common symbols that will be messed up in a print
>> document. I then ask the student what they intended for that problem and
>> they read the Braille display for me. I make the changes in the print
>> document before having them print it out for the teacher.
>>
>> Your school's transcriber should be knowledgeable in Literary Braille,
>> Nemeth Braille, and Computer Braille. I learned all these for the student 
>> I
>> work with as well as music Braille when they decided to join the school
>> band.
>>
>> When it comes to copying the problems and the corresponding number and 
>> then
>> working them I will do:
>> 1. copy the problems ahead of time into an RTF file and save it on the 
>> thumb
>> drive, then the student converts it to a BRF file and works them out 
>> during
>> class with their sighted peers
>>
>> 2. if I do not know about the assignment ahead of time, I will read the
>> problems to the student, they can work each problem then or I read all of
>> the problems to them so if they do not finish during class and it becomes
>> homework, they have all the work ready and then they do not need to take 
>> the
>> book home, just their PacMate
>>
>> The teacher, VI teacher, and parent do not feel I am hindering this 
>> student
>> by preparing the problems ahead or by reading them when necessary. It is
>> very tedious task for them to do on their own, especially if there are
>> several problems. If there are only a few for example, up to 10 depending 
>> on
>> the complexity, like Algebra or Geometry they will copy the problems
>> themselves.
>>
>> Hope some of this is useful to you.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> On
>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:32 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>
>> Hi,
>> I also use the PAC Mate. You indicate that it takes the student about 5
>> minutes to go through the process of checking to make sure all the 
>> symbols
>> produced using the student's device makes sense. My school's transcriber 
>> is
>> not skilled in nemeth Code, so unfortunately it leaves me having to use a
>> standard text editor to produce my work. I know that sounds odd, but 
>> LaTeX
>> and other programs I contemplated on using are not among the options the
>> professors have, at least for now.
>> Also, does your student have to copy the problems and their corresponding
>> numbers from the textbook before showing how he/she solved the problem?
>> Spatial math on any device like the PAC mate can be time consuming.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Connie Baker"<cnsbaker at access.k12.wv.us>
>> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>
>>
>>
>>> Maybe it is due to the knowledge your Braille transcriber knows about
>>> Nemeth
>>> and computer Braille.
>>>
>>> My student uses a PacMate to do their math assignments. Before printing
>>> the
>>> final copy to give to their teacher, we go through the document 
>>> together.
>>> I
>>> find the computer Braille symbols and they read what they meant to be
>>> there
>>> using their Braille display and make the necessary corrections. This 
>>> takes
>>> about 5 minutes to complete.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Blind Collegian
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 10:16 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I appreciate your input. However, my statement regarding nemeth Code
>>> making
>>> no sense to a naked eye was meant to refer to my math professor, who
>>> stated
>>> that the printout cannot be discerned, so I gave up. However, a 
>>> certified
>>> Braille transcriber whom I spoke with said the work I created in Nemeth
>>> Code
>>>
>>> on the BrailleNote "made perfect sense". I wonder why the discrepancy.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Susan Jolly"<easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
>>> To:<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:04 PM
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Sighted reading of Nemeth math
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I disagree with the claim about Nemeth math printed out from a 
>>>> BrailleNote
>>>> making "no sense to the naked
>>>> eye."
>>>>
>>>> If you print out Nemeth math from a BrailleNote in the original 
>>>> computer
>>>> braille (not backtranslated) it will show up as ASCII characters.  It
>>>> shouldn't take a math-knowledgeable sighted person more than a few
>>>> minutes
>>>> to learn to read it.  (The reason is much of computer braille was based
>>>> on
>>>> Nemeth math. For example, the digits and common symbols such as the 
>>>> plus
>>>> sign are identical.) Here's an article I wrote several years ago on 
>>>> this
>>>> topic that you might want to pass along to your teachers.
>>>> http://www.dotlessbraille.org/readnem.htm
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad to correspond with any sighted persons who need more help than
>>>> is
>>>> in my article.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> SusanJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
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