[Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Fri Apr 1 15:56:05 UTC 2011

Hi,

Unfortunately, many individuals believe that UEB is the answer and support
for UEB has been built into some of the screen reader software.  As I write
this,  we are working on drafting some kind of proposal for the screen
reader companies.  It is no secret that Nemeth code is the standard in the
US and has been for many years.  I would think that the software vendors
would enable what is standardized for the part of the world that they are
targeting.  I might argue that language support has been the priority of the
few vendors that are providing screen reader support.  However, they have
forgotten one communication  method; the nemeth code for mathematics which
is a standard in the US.  

If the vendor will not provide an easy way to choose Nemeth code for
mathematics as a braille and speech output, at least a method for creating
and customizing the screen reader should be provided.  Oh by the way, the
INI file method is incredibly cryptic and useless for much of the community
that uses JAWS, for example.  

I envision a wizard type interface that would allow customization of braille
tables so that software can be made to work in areas where they would
otherwise not be accessible.

I hope I am clear on the matter.

Regards,
Jose Tamayo 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Debbie Willis
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:34 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

My wish for students in the USA is that screen readers could read
mathematics in an understandable manner and that contracted code for
mathematics could be output to refreshable braille displays.
Debbie

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jose Tamayo
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:13 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Agreed!

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Neal
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 2:13 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics';
andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

FYI:  
Unlike music braille, there is no standard braille math code for the world.
It all depends on where you are.

I think the term "math support" will mean different math braille codes to
people in different places.
 In the USA it will mean Nemeth braille code, in the UK it will probably
mean the BAUK braille math code, in France it will probably mean the French
braille math code, in much of Germany it will probably mean the Marburg
braille math code.

Cheers,
Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jose Tamayo
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 2:56 PM
To: andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no; 'Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

I agree and would consider wording the statement in a way that positions
certain standards such as Nemeth Code for Mathematics.  Certain vendors
might decide that UEB is sufficient for Math support.   

I received a message recently asking to desist from requesting Nemeth Math
support because UEB is the standard.  I urge that we find a way to work
around those rejections / opinions.

I was told that Dr. Nemeth is protecting his turf and that he would
recommend his code.  My argument against it was that Nemeth Code is a
standard and was accepted in 1972 and should be supported.  Beyond the
issues of turf, the problem remains:  people that rely on the Standard
Nemeth Code for Mathematics are not able to function because of the outrage
about turf protection.  Quite frankly, I don't care about turf.  I care
about facilitation and choosing a system that works for me.  If nemeth and
UEB are standards, then they should be enabled in screen readers.  

I will add that, while my position might seem biased, I should remind that I
started using nemeth about three years ago and thought it to be well
structured.  I don't have an opinion on UEB only because I did not have the
time to "play" with another standard.

I digress!
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Stacey
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 1:11 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 05:34:03PM +0000, Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson wrote:
> What do people think about creating a web-based petition for screen 
> reader vendors to add Nemeth support for refreshable braille?

This would also make it easier for sighted people to support you.  I don't
feel that I could email a company directly and say "Support maths in your
screen reader!" because I don't use a screen reader.  But I could sign a
petition that said something like "Making maths accessible is extremely
important and I support the petition to encourage companies to make their
screen readers work with mathematics.".

I suspect that you might get quite a bit of support from the wider
mathematics community for that - we're well aware of the inherent
difficulties in communicating mathematics and so are generally in favour of
anything that removes barriers that have no reason to be there.

Hmm, not sure if that makes sense.  What I mean is that we know well enough
that there are already massive barriers to making mathematics available to
all that where these barriers are external and have nothing to do with the
mathematics itself, then we're all the more ready to tear them down.

Andrew

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