[Blindmath] mathplayer, jaws, and math in graphics?

[David Andrews]

Hello everybody:

I am not a mathematician -- just the lowly list owner.  There has 
been some back and forth here, healthy discussion is, of course 
fine.  However, some has seemed a bit more heated then that.

I would remind people of a couple things, first we all have different 
styles, preferences, etc., so what appeals to you, or makes sense to 
you may not be so for somebody else.  Some people's positions come 
across as absolute, and that there is just one way to do 
things.  Remember, this is true for you, but may not be so for 
everybody else.

It is good that we have options and each of us must pick what works 
best for him/herself.

David Andrews, List Owner



At 07:48 PM 4/5/2011, you wrote:
>    I feel that Andrew's comments have been interpreted very poorly by
>members of this list.  Firstly, consider that he is on this list, as
>all of us are, to increase the use and readability of math for the
>blind.  I'm certain that he would not be doing what he can to benefit
>the movement from the perspective that blind people are lesser and
>should sit and do what they're told.  Such comments are not only rude,
>but entirely unhelpful.
>    In a well reasoned and well worded argument, it was pointed out
>that LaTeX is simply inefficient to read.  It is.  With a screen
>reader the barrage of punctuation is difficult to sort out and in
>braille there's often an expantion of symbols into words for
>punctuation marks which only increases the size of the math needing to
>be represented.  There are more efficient ways that are a good deal
>more intuitive to people.  Pointing that out is both sensable and a
>call for the blind to demand more.  It should not be the case where we
>accept what the sighted would not when it prevents a large portion of
>our community from accessing math simply.  As a college student
>learning mathematics it is not pleasurable or even possible in some
>cases to add learning LaTeX to a scholastic course load.
>    Just because something is possible does not mean it is efficient
>and if there are better ways for your average blind individual to read
>math we need to explore them  rather than attacking those who make
>such valid points.
>
>Sincerely,
>    Ryan Thomas
>
>On 4/4/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
> > I agree with Paul 100% on this one. I use LaTeX for pretty much
> > everything now. Class notes, homework and exams, professional papers and
> > other writings, etc. I even use it when working math problems to keep
> > track of what I'm doing. I present material in hard and/or soft copy by
> > converting to pdf and/or providing LaTeX source depending on the
> > preference of the group or individual, and they're always perfectly
> > happy with the results. I ask people for LaTeX source when I want to
> > read something they've produced if I happen to know that they used LaTeX
> > to produce it, and they're always more than happy to provide it. I've
> > even had tutors and other instructors help me with math questions by
> > looking at my LaTeX. Those that know it already have no trouble, and
> > those that have never seen it say that it's clear enough they can almost
> > always tell what it is I'm trying to do as far as the math goes. In the
> > event that they can't, I can always generate a pdf.
> >
> > As for LaTeX being hard to read because of macros or what ever else,
> > I've found that in at least 90% of cases that's not a problem. Almost
> > everyone I know uses the amsmath and/or the amssym packages, and the
> > macros that do appear don't detract from the readability of the material
> > itself.
> > --
> > "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
> > Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>