[Blindmath] mathplayer, jaws, and math in graphics?

[PR Stanley]

Funny, when I asked for his help last time a certain list member 
sought to deliberately blacken my name on this list, I didn't' even 
get a reply to my email. Now he is lecturing us on list protocol.
I get it in the neck for helping the blind community, for simply 
trying to share with them ideas that have helped me gain some level 
of independence.. I see it as a sort of moral duty.
unfortunately, It seems some members of the blind community are more 
than happy being exploited and treated like fools. Oh yes, they talk 
about independence and all that rot, but when they're offered the 
choice, they reject it violently and run back to their slave masters.
They seem only to accept help when it comes with a price tag attached 
to it. When the same help is offered to them for free they treat it 
with utmost suspicion.
I am no psychologist but I wonder if this could have something to do 
with disabled people being treated like second class citizens since 
time immemorial.
Well, don't use LaTeX then. Far too many punctuation marks and 
strangely named macros, far too complicated for blind people. your 
time would be much more fruitfully spent jumping up and down and 
shouting yourself horse about the injustice of not having a system 
simple enough for the blind.
Paul
At 02:11 06/04/2011, you wrote:
>Hello everybody:
>
>I am not a mathematician -- just the lowly list owner.  There has 
>been some back and forth here, healthy discussion is, of course 
>fine.  However, some has seemed a bit more heated then that.
>
>I would remind people of a couple things, first we all have 
>different styles, preferences, etc., so what appeals to you, or 
>makes sense to you may not be so for somebody else.  Some people's 
>positions come across as absolute, and that there is just one way to 
>do things.  Remember, this is true for you, but may not be so for 
>everybody else.
>
>It is good that we have options and each of us must pick what works 
>best for him/herself.
>
>David Andrews, List Owner
>
>
>
>At 07:48 PM 4/5/2011, you wrote:
>>    I feel that Andrew's comments have been interpreted very poorly by
>>members of this list.  Firstly, consider that he is on this list, as
>>all of us are, to increase the use and readability of math for the
>>blind.  I'm certain that he would not be doing what he can to benefit
>>the movement from the perspective that blind people are lesser and
>>should sit and do what they're told.  Such comments are not only rude,
>>but entirely unhelpful.
>>    In a well reasoned and well worded argument, it was pointed out
>>that LaTeX is simply inefficient to read.  It is.  With a screen
>>reader the barrage of punctuation is difficult to sort out and in
>>braille there's often an expantion of symbols into words for
>>punctuation marks which only increases the size of the math needing to
>>be represented.  There are more efficient ways that are a good deal
>>more intuitive to people.  Pointing that out is both sensable and a
>>call for the blind to demand more.  It should not be the case where we
>>accept what the sighted would not when it prevents a large portion of
>>our community from accessing math simply.  As a college student
>>learning mathematics it is not pleasurable or even possible in some
>>cases to add learning LaTeX to a scholastic course load.
>>    Just because something is possible does not mean it is efficient
>>and if there are better ways for your average blind individual to read
>>math we need to explore them  rather than attacking those who make
>>such valid points.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>    Ryan Thomas
>>
>>On 4/4/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
>> > I agree with Paul 100% on this one. I use LaTeX for pretty much
>> > everything now. Class notes, homework and exams, professional papers and
>> > other writings, etc. I even use it when working math problems to keep
>> > track of what I'm doing. I present material in hard and/or soft copy by
>> > converting to pdf and/or providing LaTeX source depending on the
>> > preference of the group or individual, and they're always perfectly
>> > happy with the results. I ask people for LaTeX source when I want to
>> > read something they've produced if I happen to know that they used LaTeX
>> > to produce it, and they're always more than happy to provide it. I've
>> > even had tutors and other instructors help me with math questions by
>> > looking at my LaTeX. Those that know it already have no trouble, and
>> > those that have never seen it say that it's clear enough they can almost
>> > always tell what it is I'm trying to do as far as the math goes. In the
>> > event that they can't, I can always generate a pdf.
>> >
>> > As for LaTeX being hard to read because of macros or what ever else,
>> > I've found that in at least 90% of cases that's not a problem. Almost
>> > everyone I know uses the amsmath and/or the amssym packages, and the
>> > macros that do appear don't detract from the readability of the material
>> > itself.
>> > --
>> > "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
>> > Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blindmath mailing list
>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Blindmath:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/prstanley%40ntlworld.com