[Blindmath] An Example of How MathML Pronunciation Could be Wrong

[Roopakshi Pathania]

Hi Neil,

 

I think that the expression is pronounced the same way I
wrote even when using the “Speak Expression” item from the right-click menu.

I know that you have been working hard to get the pronunciation
correct; this is in no way a criticism of MathPlayer or you.

The Wikipedia entry that you point to has only one case
where the “divide” word suits the occasion.

And that is perhaps the biggest disadvantage of relying solely
on MathML by a blind user. It has many advantages too, but for now I’ll
complete the thought that was behind my observation in the first place.

The difference between MathML and LaTeX can be compared to
the difference between computer vision and raw sensory feedback (in the form of
sound or touch).

A bunch of algorithms will identify an object as a person
based on the matching characteristics from its database. But what if that turns
out to be an alien? Hindsight analysis will do no good in that case.

OK, back to the main point. While I fully support MathML, I
can’t agree with a number of people who have expressed dissatisfaction with
reading LaTeX math. If I were someone who was studying Bayes’ theorem for the
first time using MathML, I would automatically have taken the “divide” to mean
division, and not a vertical bar. 

On the other hand while introducing a new symbol, teachers
and textbook authors often compare the structure of the new symbol to something
that is previously recognizable, like guess what… a vertical bar. Not to mention
that if I were again someone who was studying Bayes’ theorem for the first time
using LaTeX, I would instantly get a picture of a vertical bar and be able put
my own interpretation on it irrespective of the context. I would also be able
to describe the same symbol to someone who is writing an exam for me

But I think you understand this; this was mostly for those
who don’t realize the benefits of reading math in LaTeX.

 

I guess that all this would be irrelevant once screen reader
vendors start supporting Nemeth or other math codes for displaying MathML, in which
case, those who can’t afford Braille displays would be in the same or perhaps a
worse situation.


Regards

Sent from my Lenovo ThinkPad

--- On Sun, 4/17/11, Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com> wrote:

From: Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] An Example of How MathML Pronunciation Could be Wrong
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Date: Sunday, April 17, 2011, 10:55 PM

Please don't mistake what MathPlayer or some other application speaks
for some MathML as being inherent in the MathML.  Each application
chooses its own words.  In fact, MathPlayer 3 has several ways to
speak expressions.  Also, be aware that the vertical bar is very
ambiguous in math.  See [1] for some examples.

This summer we will start adding subject area rules for math
notations.  We are starting with geometry and will likely move to
probability and statistics next, but it partly depends upon the
interests and successes of the student who will doing it.  Once we do
add probability, and the listener or author of the content says that
this is probability, then it would be read better.  Perhaps like
"Probability of ay given b equals (pause) fraction probability of b
given ay  times probability of ay (pause) over probability of b
(pause) end fraction" when the speech target is "blind" -- the
"fraction/end fraction" would be absent when the speech target is
"learning disability" or "low vision".  In a terse mode, "probability"
would like be just "p".  If the AT supports SAPI or SSML, the "ay"
will be a pronunciation tag for the long "a" sound (just like it is
now).  If MathPlayer doesn't know the context, it needs to fall back
to a generic reading like you give (although what you wrote seems to
be missing the "p"s).

Neil Soiffer
Senior Scientist
Design Science, Inc.
www.dessci.com
~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~


[1]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Roopakshi Pathania
<r_akshi_tgk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have always known this, but while looking through websites using MathML for my article for Access2Science, I found an actual example.
>
> The equation here is the statement for Bayes' Theorem in MathML as well as in LaTeX.
> Those who don't know Bayes' theorem, but have studied with the help of MathML and LaTeX will be able to spot the difference.
> Note that I cannot say whether the irregularity is due to the way it is pronounced, or due to the underlying code.
> In any case, this is just an example to show that MathML can on occasions be pronounced incorrectly, and not a signal to spark another MathML vs LaTeX debate.
>
> open  cap ay divides cap bee  close equals. fraction  cap pr  open  cap bee  divides  cap ay  close  cap pr  open  cap ay  close over,  cap pr  open  cap bee  close, end fraction.
>
> http://xbeta.org/wiki/show/Bayes%27+theorem
>
> P(A|B) = \frac{P(B|A)\, P(A)}{P(B)}.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes'_theorem
>
> Sent from my Lenovo ThinkPad
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