[Blindmath] Question about doing math in notepad

Fri Aug 26 12:55:31 UTC 2011

Birkir,

I think I'll be in a better position to release a comprehensive list 
of symbols after trying this approach for a semester in a real math 
class.  It remains to be seen which solution works best in practice: 
the simple Notepad + dictionary approach, the Nemeth in Notepad 
approach, the Word + Mathtype approach, or the Latex in text editor approach.

In addition, getting a JAWS dictionary file into a user's system is 
about as problematic to describe as having the user create their own 
custom dictionary file. I must get a better handle on distributing 
JAWS resources, using the Settings Packager I think...

Ben

At 08:01 PM 8/25/2011, you wrote:
>Question for Ben on the Notepad/dictionary approach.
>I certainly understand it has its significant drawbacks, and usually
>just would be a stop gap solution, or solution for simple math, but I
>like the simplicity of it.
>Is there a way to create a dictionary file of the most common math
>notations such as x squared etc, and offer it for download, or do
>peoplehave to make all their own dictionary entries (of course they
>may want to, but a basic list of the most common symbols and terms
>might speed up initial development a bit and, hopefully, hgive people
>more time to evaluate other options).
>It's all about choice, and this is the first time I've seen this idea
>for writing math in notepad, and I find it neat.
>
>
>On 8/24/11, Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com> wrote:
> > I want to echo what Birkir said:  hundreds of thousands of people use
> > MathType without a problem (although only a very few use it with a screen
> > reader).  If you are having problems, please contact 
> support at dessci.com.  We
> > take pride in our responsive support to MathType users.  I hope that they
> > will be able to help you resolve whatever problem you are having.
> >
> > Neil Soiffer
> > Senior Scientist
> > Design Science, Inc.
> > www.dessci.com
> > ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> This is an odd problem you're having. I've run MathType with no
> >> problems (I installed it as an admin in Windows 7 32 bit).
> >> You may want to contact Design Science directly, and see if they can
> >> assist with some of the installation issues, at lesat those that do
> >> not seem to be screen reader related.
> >> What you are experiencing is definitely not what I had to deal with.
> >> I had to enable the MathType macros to work in Word manually through
> >> Word's ActiveX options, but that was the only snag I hit along the
> >> way.
> >> I know playing with these things is mightily frustrating, but I think
> >> you should be able to get a better result and the problems you are
> >> describing should not be the default expectation, rather something
> >> seems to be wrong and it might be worth a second look/try to see if a
> >> simple fix exists.
> >> -B
> >>
> >> On 8/24/11, Ben Humphreys <brh at opticinspiration.org> wrote:
> >> > John,
> >> >
> >> > This turned out to be both interesting and frustrating.
> >> >
> >> > On the interesting side, the Mathtype add-in allowed me to convert my
> >> > instructor's Microsoft Equation Editor equations to Latex within
> >> > Word.  At that point, the previously incomplete and nonsensical
> >> > equations were spoken as understandable Latex by JAWS.
> >> >
> >> > Now for the frustrating part.  Mathtype is riddled with installation
> >> > and reliability issues, at least for me running Windows 7 32-bit and
> >> > Microsoft Word 2010.
> >> >
> >> >   For example, I got errors from Mathtype installation re: inability
> >> > to remove and install fonts.  When launched in Word, I got additional
> >> > errors regarding inability to install a toolbar in c:\programdata\...
> >> >
> >> > Other times, it would crash Word all-together requiring a hard reboot.
> >> >
> >> > I had to disable User Account Control to overcome these problems and
> >> > was then able to convert my instructor's equations to Latex.
> >> >
> >> > However, the system then suffered from various reliability issues,
> >> > such as Skype and Internet Explorer constantly crashing and
> >> > restarting for no good reason.
> >> >
> >> > After returning to a previously good System Restore Point before the
> >> > Mathtype installation, these odd problems went away.
> >> >
> >> > It's not definitive proof that Mathtype is to blame.  However, I
> >> > think their dev team is a little behind the curve, not supporting IE9
> >> > with Mathreader and I suspect their installation program needs to be
> >> > upgraded to work with Windows 7's User Account Control and
> >> > non-privileged security defaults.
> >> >
> >> > Even with all these shortcomings, the ability to convert previously
> >> > inaccessible Microsoft Equation Editor equations to Latex is so
> >> > compelling that I think I'll rebuild a Windows XP box with an older
> >> > version of Word and IE7.  I believe such an environment will work
> >> > better with Mathtype and probably Mathreader as well.
> >> >
> >> > The fight goes on to learn math again...
> >> >
> >> > Ben
> >> >
> >> > At 06:23 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
> >> >>Daria, there is an article on www.access2science about writing math in
> >> >> MS
> >> >>Word with MathType.  You need to learn a minimum of Latex to read/write
> >> >>equations in MSWord+MathType, and you seem like a pretty sharp guy.  So
> >> >> I
> >> >>guess you should be able to learn how to do this in a few hours of work.
> >> >> At
> >> >>this point you would have a good tool for reading and writing math - in
> >> >> fact
> >> >>the most popular single way of writing scientific papers on earth.
> >> >>
> >> >>I do agree that you need to learn how to write in pure Latex, but you
> >> won't
> >> >>be able to do that in a few hours.  However using various templates that
> >> >>have appeared already on this list, you should be able to write minimal
> >> >>Latex documents in a short while too.  But compiling and debugging is a
> >> >>longer process.  It woulod be great if you can find somebody to provide
> >> >> some
> >> >>local tutoring, but if necessary you can do it on your own.  It has been
> >> >>done before.
> >> >>
> >> >>John Gardner
> >> >>
> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >> On
> >> >>Behalf Of Dasha Radford
> >> >>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 2:56 PM
> >> >>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> >>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about doing math in notepad
> >> >>
> >> >>Hi,
> >> >>Just a small problem that needs to be taken in to considderation...
> >> >>Bit of info number one: I go to a private school which does not have a
> >> TVI
> >> >>of any type.
> >> >>Bit of info number two: Braille displays aren't cheap. The only thingI
> >> have
> >> >>is an 18 cell RefreshaBraille18 from Aph.
> >> >>Last bit of info: I start school tomorrow and I'm using a computer for
> >> >>everything else. While I have a braille writer it's hard to find people
> >> >>willing to read math problems and such.
> >> >>I don't mean to be rude but this is what all of the college students in
> >> my
> >> >>Ncabs group seem to be learning or using competently as the case maybe.
> >> If
> >> >> I
> >> >>
> >> >>let this wait and only learn it a few months before college when nerves
> >> are
> >> >>strung as tight as whip-cord and Dsb is giving me grief because I need
> >> more
> >> >>technology than most because I am partially deaf with a fairly good
> >> chance
> >> >>of being profoundly deaf by 35 well... I don't think not learning would
> >> be
> >> >> a
> >> >>
> >> >>good idea right now.
> >> >>Thank you and I'm sorry if I come across a bit more strongly than
> >> >> perhaps
> >> I
> >> >>intend for in truth it is not my intention at all. I just want people to
> >> >>understand that I am not working on a mainstream public school system
> >> >>neither am I making my stand on a field that is level by comparison with
> >> >>what you can think of as just plain vanilla blind although there aren't
> >> >> many
> >> >>
> >> >>of those around.
> >> >>Again I'm sorry if I come over a bit harsh but this is something
> >> everyone,
> >> >>not just blind people but anyone else with a disability needs to
> >> >> understand.
> >> >>
> >> >>We don't all play the same game, we don't do the same things with our
> >> >> lives,
> >> >>
> >> >>and we most certainly don't get the option of saying that there is one
> >> way
> >> >>and only one way to do a thing.
> >> >>Daria
> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>From: "Susan Jolly" <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
> >> >>To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:44 PM
> >> >>Subject: [Blindmath] Question about doing math in notepad
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Dasha,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you are in high school you shouldn't need to know anything except
> >> >> > Nemeth. Your TVI should be interlining your work so you can focus on
> >> >> > understanding math.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Alternatively, I would suggest that you learn to use Nemetex, which
> >> was
> >> >> > developed by a blind high school student now attending college.  This
> >> >> > program automatically converts Nemeth algebra and other Nemeth math
> >> that
> >> >> > you enter using a braille display to LaTeX so a sighted person can
> >> read
> >> >> > it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.accessisoft.com/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best wishes,
> >> >> > Susan Jolly
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Blindmath mailing list
> >> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> > Blindmath:
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dasha95%40nc.rr.c
> >> >>om
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>Blindmath mailing list
> >> >>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >>Blindmath:
> >> >>
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40or
> >> >>st.edu
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>Blindmath mailing list
> >> >>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> >>for Blindmath:
> >> >>
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brh%40opticinspiration.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Blindmath mailing list
> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> > Blindmath:
> >> >
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40dessci.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blindmath mailing list
>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Blindmath:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brh%40opticinspiration.org