[Blindmath] UEB again (was Braille code urgency)

Sun Dec 4 19:57:40 UTC 2011

Hello Sina.  I'm not venting.  I am just pointing out that there is very
little quality research on literary braille usage, much less on something
that only a few percent of braille readers seem to be concerned about.  But
it doesn't take research for anybody to understand that reading something
like
#d;,a#b;,d is a cognitively larger load than reading a hex number as 4A2D.
Nor does it take research to know that having well-defined number symbols is
necessary to be able to represent computer braille and that it will surely
make math braille easier to code/read.  I do not deny that a great deal of
research is needed to identify the very best unified braille code.  But I
claim that a group of unselfish braille-using scientists could come up with
a good one.  UEBC ain't that.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Sina Bahram [mailto:sbahram at nc.rr.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 9:26 AM
To: john.gardner at orst.edu; 'Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics'
Subject: RE: [Blindmath] UEB again (was Braille code urgency)

John, I'm going to assume you're either A. speaking tongue and cheak, or B.
just venting/frustrated about the situation, since my
email was quite serious, and sincere.

Website: www.SinaBahram.com
Twitter: @SinaBahram

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 11:51 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] UEB again (was Braille code urgency)

Sina, please do be serius.  There are not even any fully reliable studies
comparing the effectiveness of contracted vs non-contracted braille.  But
there are plenty of people who will assure you that contracted braille is
much more efficient.  What evidence there is points to the opposite
conclusion.  The NFB has been making noises about studying this question but
thus far has not.  

There was an attempt early in the 20'th century to develop a uniform math
code, but representatives used it as a platform to proclaim that their
particular math code was the best and should be adopted.  Reminds me of the
UEBC in some ways. 

Even if there was a fully reliable study of such braille questions, I doubt
that everybody would happily follow the recommendations.

John

John

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:10 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] UEB again (was Braille code urgency)

I also don't understand why the problem has to be trivialized into
complaints such as the letters of the alphabet can't represent
numbers. Is there research about the cognitive load on users of Nemeth, for
example, versus another code? Are there cognitive models
built which are based upon actual perceptual psychology, store/recall, or
other experimentally validated data that support such a
claim?

A real mathematician, I feel, would balk at signing a petition when so many
general claims exist. As a researcher, I find myself
asking, where's the how/why of it? where's the science to back up one over
the other? Where's the actual research that shows how a
system for mathematics should be designed based on first principles instead
of on anecdotal common wisdom?

Take care,
Sina

Website: www.SinaBahram.com
Twitter: @SinaBahram

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 2:27 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] UEB again (was Braille code urgency)

I think many of us realize that something has to change, even if we're not
sure which route should be followed.  Blind 
kids will have no way to deal with many of the texts in education if we cant
bring more of the variations of print to 
braille.  They will get the extra information with screen readers instead
even if it is less effective.  This isn't a simple 
issue and the future path isn't clear, but just clinging to the past won't
work, either.  Send opinions to BANA if you 
have obvious solutions, but the world is changing, print is changing, and we
have to find a way for braille to change in 
an organized and reasonable way.  I'm not saying I know which code is best
because I truly don't know, but we have 
to take this on as a challenge to our ingenuity and not just kick and scream
and wish that the world stopped changing 
in 1960.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 15:53:35 -0500, Susan Mooney wrote:

>I don't understand why the consumers don't revolt and put their feet firmly
>down.  Where's the rally from the braille readers themselves?

>SM

>On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Susan Jolly <easjolly at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>> Those of us who oppose the UEB have tried many tactics and written many
>> words explaining its problems. None of these have worked.
>>
>> I'm wondering if the best tactic is to enlist sighted mathematicians and
>> math teachers to create some sort of manifesto.  One need know nothing
>> about Braille or tactile reading to clearly state that one cannot
>> effectively either understand or do mathematics with a writing system
that
>> uses same characters for the decimal digits as for certain letters of the
>> alphabet.  Adoption of the UEB would mean assuming that Braille users
have
>> no need to understand mathematics.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Susan Jolly
>>
>> Sent from my wonderful iPad
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>-- 
>Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. --CS
>Lewis
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