[Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Fri Feb 18 16:07:58 UTC 2011

Just a comment on this, I have been pushing the vendors from a variety of
fronts to include at least a MathML aware DTB player on their devices and
while their developers have told me it would not be difficult to do as you
found out there supposedly is not demand for it.  This has been an issue I
have been raising for the last 3-4 years, and I know they have been hearing
it from a variety of fronts, so I find their response in this instance to
have little credibility.

Ron Stewart

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jose Tamayo
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 11:02 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Agreed.  I have spoken with Two vendors about the issue.  One HumanWare
Technical Support technician flat out told me that there was no demand for
what I was asking.  I guess it is a catch 22.  To paraphrase one tech
support individual: "Our device is a PDA and you can't expect it to do
everything, this device is purely for word processing!"  Well, for a word
processor, I would get a cheaper notebook with Microsoft Word and use it for
word processing.  The bottom line is that devices such as the ones made by
HiumanWare with Refreshable Braille displays should "enable" or "make" the
difference.  Selling the device as a word processor is truly a bad sell, if
that is the case.

I sight HumanWare as an example and do not criticize their value.  I merely
quote one individual whom I spoke with. And under no circumstance demean
their value and position.  

Regards,
J

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Stephen L Noble
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 10:23 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Yes, well I did not mean to paint all vendors with the same brush.
Clearly, there are some AT vendors who are strong on math support. You
mention Duxbury and ViewPlus. I agree, these vendors are doing a great
job in regards to math. So is gh and Dolphin, just to name a couple
more. But I was really focusing more on the point about refreshable
braille displays. The point is, if the software one uses every day is
lacking on math support (or some other context one needs in one's
studies or work), the status quo may never change unless several
customers make a concerted effort to make their voices known.
Furthermore, if a vendor does come out with a new version with better
math support, let them know you find their efforts valuable. 

--Steve Noble

>>> Jose Tamayo <jtblas at hotmail.com> 2/18/2011 9:39 AM >>>
Oh, let's not forget that they are coming around.  DBT has Nemeth
Braille
Support and so does ViewPlus.  It has taken some time but it has been
accomplished.  Now we have to get the Screen Reading vendors to get
on-board.  Some might argue for UEB as an option and JAWS does support
UEB
but many people I know will not use UEB for Maths.  Nemeth Braille is a
more
viable option for many!

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Stephen L Noble
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:24 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

By the way, there's a crucial subtext to this issue which is often
overlooked: that vendors of assistive technology need to hear as much
input from customers as possible. I often have conversations with
developers about something they need to support, and I am told that I
am
the one of the few (sometimes they say I am the only) persons who has
ever said anything about the need for math support.  Case in point, I
specifically asked the product manager of a widely used screen reader
about supporting Nemeth in their refreshable braille display output
and
I was told, "We have never heard from any of our customers that they
actually want to use Nemeth braille with our product." Believe it or
not, that is a quote. 

So, the moral of this lesson is none of us should be satisfied with
the
response that "our product cannot do what you need." I suspect
everybody
on this list believes that braille support for mathematics is a vital
issue, so if everybody on this list started sending emails or made
phone
calls to tell the company that makes the products he/she uses that
supporting math (including Nemeth braille) should be considered
mandatory.

--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu 
502-969-3088

>>> "Kodeswaran, Balaji" <bkodeswaran at air.org> 2/17/2011 3:32 PM >>>
Jose,

Thank you for your response. However, I am unclear on how I get Nemeth
to the RBD through JAWS? On our website, say we are rendering the
content as MathML. I am told (by JAWS tech support) that JAWS cannot
convert MathML to Nemeth. Also, since our users are primarily Firefox
users, they won't have the benefit of MathPlayer (although it is not
clear what this provides for IE/JAWS users in this regard). Our
thoughts
were to see if we could transcribe to Nemeth (Grade 1), stick into the
web page in a hidden DIV next to the MathML and see if there are any
ARIA (or JAWS specific markup tags) that we could put on the page to
send this Nemeth to the Braille display. 

Thanks

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