[Blindmath] Availability of college level math text books in Braille, sufficient to recommend it as something to check?

Fri Jul 15 15:07:17 UTC 2011

Hi, just one comment.  It is absolutely correct that it can cost more than
$50k to convert a math book to braille.  I know of some that cost quite a
bit more.  The largest chunk of that is converting the graphics.  At risk of
seeming self-serving I should point out that it is quite inexpensive to
convert typical math figures to IVEO SVG.  If one used InftyReader and IVEO,
the cost should be "only" a few thousand dollars.  Largely labor of
preparing the copy and correcting the math.

John Gardner

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James McCarthy
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:55 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Availability of college level math text books in
Braille, sufficient to recommend it as something to check?

Birkir,
I am not sure how helpful Bookshare would be in this situation though I do
not have personal experience with their math and science materials. I think
that for those who know Braille, that is the best option but there is a real
lack of material in Braille and no good system for improving on that. I saw
something in notes from the AIM commission that you referenced stating a
cost of often greater than $50,000 to create some Braille math textbooks.
The reference was more in the nature of an anecdote or a statement lacking
factual specificity, though it may nevertheless be an accurate one.  One
text costing as much as a year at that the most expensive American colleges
though is a hard thing to justify any way one tries.

I don't think digital texts would be nearly so costly. However, there is no
easy way to do them accurately without extensive labor involved. I operate a
program to aid college students in Maryland receive textbooks for their
courses. I hope to employ InftyReader and that may help us some, but at the
present time, making digital texts usable for mathematics is not that
feasible. Recently on this list, Steve Noble described the process he uses
to make these materials accessible and it is very labor intensive, though I
think it is the process that appears most likely to make these materials
accessible. If Bookshare follows a similar process for math and science
materials, I think materials from them would be as accessible as is
generally possible. If not, they are probably not usable. There is the NIMAS
standard for making materials accessible in K-12 but unless it has been
updated since its inception, it falls short on math and science as well, not
just for graphs but I think also for equations and other content.

The AIM commission you referenced appears to be considering a recommendation
regarding access to math and science materials. I believe that they were
wrapping up their recommendations in their recently completed meeting in
Seattle and there is a document on line that is a draft from sometime prior
to their Seattle meeting. I am not sure how strong their recommendation will
be nor how likely it is to be implemented even if it is one that will
improve this area of access, one that certainly needs improving.

James McCarthy, J.D.
Maryland Accessible Textbook Program Coordinator
Maryland Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped
415 Park Avenue
Baltimore, MD 21201
Phone: (410) 230-2453
Fax: (410) 333-2095
Email: jmccart at lbph.lib.md.us

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:15 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Availability of college level math text books
inBraille, sufficient to recommend it as something to check?

I do suggest Bookshare in my presentation and suggest students check
with Learning Ally for current and previous editions of the text book
to be used, NIMAC does not offer post-secondary text books, the best
approach for producing accessible post-secondary text books in a
timely manner is being discussed by the AIM committee (Accessible
Instructional Materials), I believe they are due to issue
recommendations to congress in the fall.
I pushed for some math and science emphasis a while back, but I
havenot followed up since.

On 7/15/11, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>  I used rfbd for all my college math books.  The calculus one at the time
> was one edition behind the one we were using in school.  The cool thing
> about the reader of  my calculus book was he was obviously some math
wizard
> because he corrected a few of the examples and one of the graphs.
> Unfortunetly not all readers are this great at RFBD but you can find a lot
> of math books recorded.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Lisa Bongiorno
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:36 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Availability of college level math text books
> inBraille, sufficient to recommend it as something to check?
>
> I deal with students from age 3 months to 18 (or 21 depending the age
> they graduate from High School).  I am assuming it's more difficult for
> college students to find and retrieve college books.   Does Bookshare,
> NIMAC, and Learning Ally offer college books?  What about ShareBraille
> at NFB?  I have posted some of my academic Braille books - especially
> math and science on ShareBraille.  I don't have the space to store some
> of the books I retrieve, and I hate to throw them out. So I post them in
> hopes that someone else could use them.
> Lisa
>
> --Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:21 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Availability of college level math text books
> inBraille, sufficient to recommend it as something to check?
>
> Birkir,
>
> I would suggest APH because I believe their "Louis" database tracks
> textbooks that are being transcribed around the country.  There are
> still agencies who
> have volunteers transcribing textbooks in braille.  For example, the
> Communication Center in Minnesota State Services for the Blind still
> doesit, at least they
> do when our state government isn't shut down because of a budget fight.
> I could be wrong but I don't think National Braille Press does
> specialized
> textbooks.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:48:59 +0000, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
>
>>Hi all
>
>>The Youth Slam lecture construction has certainly drawn my attention
>>to various issues I had not thought off previously (a god thing, I
>>suppose).
>>One such is whether to even suggest inquiring through APH, National
>>Braille Press or others for hardcopy versions of math text books in
>>Braille.
>>For one thing I have a calculus braille book 800 pges print, in 3
>>boxes and need our storage space to keep boxes I amnot using, so this
>>is very impractical.
>>For another, I simply do not know if there s sufficient quantity
>>available of books to suggest students try this.
>>Either way I am listing it as a last resort, behind elecronic files
>>from Publishers, InftyReader scanning of hard or electronic files,
>>using readers and checking with RFB&D (Learning Ally) and Bookshare.
>
>>If anyone has any comments on this, I'd be happy to see 'em.
>>Thanks
>>-Birkir
>>p.s. great discussion threat on how to perform transformations and
>>calculations, I will incorporate all suggestions into the eventual
>>presentation.
>
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>
>
>
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