[Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press release

Sun May 29 15:16:18 UTC 2011

Sorry about that I hit yes on this stupid spell checker when it asked if I
wanted to send before finishing yada yada.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Engebretson Jr.
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:58 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press release

"stearoiods" could be in the dictionary next year as a new word!

Cheers,
David

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Perry" <kperry at blinksoft.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press release

> If mathml does not render the math in an accessible manor without screen
> access software then I don't see it as accessible.  It would be like 
> saying
> tall browsers are low vision compliant if you have a screen enlarger.  If
> mathml is really going to be accessible then it should have streaming 
> audio
> that reads the math to you but again this is a dream world.  One in which 
> I
> can sit at anyones computer and use it.  Sort of like a Mac but on
> stearoiods
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:55 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press release
>
> By the way, this is standards compliant. Ken mentioned standards, and yet
> this entire conversation is about authors who use
> standards like MathML for example.
>
> It's like saying, why does jaws need to support html5 specific elements, 
> if
> everything is standards compliant then it will
> automagically work. That makes no sense. The standards are there, 
> affording
> jaws and others a stable target to develop against and
> clear guidelines to implement; however, they are not doing so.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Neil Soiffer
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:07 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press release
>
> There are definitely things that authors can do to improve access, and
> Pearson has been a leader in the textbook field in producing accessible
> materials.  I commend you/Pearson on providing long descriptions of graphs
> and charts. Doing so greatly increases the readability/understandability 
> of
> math texts.  MathPlayer does nothing for those kinds of content, although 
> I
> suspect John Gardner might chime in about the importance of using SVG for
> that kind of content.
>
> Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do as an author to enhance
> accessibility.  For example, do you have a way so that Nemeth code is
> generated for expressions or some other math code for those outside the 
> US?
> What about navigation of the math?  If screen readers make the appropriate
> calls to MathPlayer (in the future), then those other capabilities will be
> present, and they will be present with no effort from the author.
>
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Well from talking to the Pearsons coders they are trying to make the
>> subject
>> matter accessible no matter the access difficulties. For example in the
>> chapter I have in front of me right now if you go to a diagram that is a
>> bar
>> chart.  Or how about a parabola it has access in two ways one is a long
>> desc
>> like alt that works in any screen reader but another for a better
>> description is you click on the picture and it brings up a full
> description
>> of the graph in question as if a person was describing it to you.  They
> are
>> using math player to read the functions and things and the test I took as
> a
>> sample was accessible whether I be totally blind, visually impaired, or a
>> regular sighted user.  I just think if things are designed correctly it
>> doesn't matter the access software.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 10:41 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics; 
>> patti at 4dewitt.com
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press 
>> release
>>
>> Maybe Neil will feel like explaining more, but the odds are that whatever
>> GW
>> Micro does will likely benefit Freedom Scientific.  I must say that I'm a
>> little surprised that people would feel that Freedom Scientific was
> wronged
>> here when they chose to not put anything into this project and to sit 
>> back
>> and benefit from the work of others.  I'm not sure there is any way to
>> interpret math in a way that is so standard that screen readers won't 
>> have
>> to do some work.  In addition, the model of how software is made
> accessible
>> is changing and screen readers are having to make some adjustments.  We
> are
>> very much moving away from MSAA toward UI Automation, and this does
> require
>> some effort on the part of screen readers.  Over time, there will be more
>> standard ways of handling this, but it does worry me some that there 
>> seems
>> to be a significant amount of work that screen readers have to do to make
>> individual software accessible.  Time will tell how it all works out.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Fri, 27 May 2011 01:26:06 +0000, patti at 4dewitt.com wrote:
>>
>> >In addition, as a technology teacher of the blind in nj, most kids are
>> >at the mercy of the commission or the schools for their technology.
>> >They get them
>> jaws most times.
>> >Universal access is my dream. It should all be interconnected On the
>> >other hand, Jaws users have a huge underground of script writers who
>> >may already have solved my problem
>>
>> >Sent on the Sprint. Now Network from my BlackBerry.
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: "Ken Perry" <kperry at blinksoft.com>
>> >Sender: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 20:57:31
>> >To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in
>> >mathematics'<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> >Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >       <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press
>> >release
>>
>> >See this is where I have to ask.  If you use standards like html 5 and
>> >make sure that things are more than just accessible to screen readers
>> >it won't be hard for companies like FS to keep it accessible.  This
>> >shouldn't be a war against companies it should be a war to make Math
>> >accessible whether a person uses sight or sound or smell to read math.
>> >If standards of the world are followed rather than making up a standard
>> >just for the blind then it won't be an issue.
>>
>> >Ken
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Neil Soiffer
>> >Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:13 PM
>> >To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press
>> >release
>>
>> >We are adding new functionality (eg, navigation for math and being able
>> >to read math directly in a word doc without saving to a web page first).
>> >Unless JAWS or other AT adds code to their product to take make the
>> >appropriate calls to the new interfaces that get defined, it won't pick
>> >up that new functionality.
>>
>> >Neil Soiffer
>> >Senior Scientist
>> >Design Science, Inc.
>> >www.dessci.com
>>
>>
>> >On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Patti Mitchell <patti at 4dewitt.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> Is Jaws using something else?
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On
>> >> Behalf Of Neil Soiffer
>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:08 PM
>> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Somewhat positive yet disappointing press
>> >> release
>> >>
>> >> We would like as many screen readers as possible to be part of this
>> work.
>> >> Freedom Scientific did not want to participate in the grant, GW Micro
>> did.
>> >> I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want math support
>> >> in
>> >your
>> >> AT, you need to make it very clear to your AT vendor that if they
>> >> don't support math well, you'll use a different product that does.
>> >>
>> >> Neil Soiffer
>> >> Senior Scientist
>> >> Design Science, Inc.
>> >> www.dessci.com
>> >> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation
>> >> Editor ~
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Jose Tamayo <jtblas at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In the press release below, JAWS is not mentioned at all.  This is
>> >> > such a significant press release yet a market player such as JAWS
>> >> > is not even mentioned, any reason?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/110524.htm
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.
>> >> >
>> >> > dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/110524.htm
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Blindmath mailing list
>> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> > for
>> >> > Blindmath:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40
>> >> > des
>> >> > sci.com
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Blindmath:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patti%404dew
>> >itt.c
>> >>
>> >om<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patti%404
>> >dewit
>> >t.c%0Aom>
>> >> -----
>> >> No virus found in this message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3661 - Release Date:
>> >> 05/26/11
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Blindmath:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40dess
>> >ci.co
>> >m
>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Blindmath mailing list
>> >Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >Blindmath:
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40bli
>> >nksof
>> >t.com
>>
>>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Blindmath mailing list
>> >Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patti%404dew
>> >itt.com _______________________________________________
>> >Blindmath mailing list
>> >Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobs
>> >on%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40dessci.co
> m
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksof
> t.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Blindmath:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/davide%40soundand
science.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3666 - Release Date: 05/28/11 
18:34:00

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksof
t.com