[Blindmath] MathJax Accessibility: math/STEM universal access/design

Thu Nov 10 04:19:07 UTC 2011

I think that using words to convey math/STEM content has its place,
but should not be the only approach/answer. As I previously mentioned,
it has serious limitations and falls apart when it comes to spatial
layout/structure and braille support. This is like suggesting that one
would have to use a spreadsheet or presentation program and everything
was conveyed in terms of words with no ability to navigate the user
interface like everyone else is able to. Both spreadsheets and
presentation are quite spatial and are accessible, but it’s not done
by converting everything into words, but by making the user interface
accessible, which provides the spatial layout/structure in a
meaningful way. The iPadd and iPhone are additional great examples of
a spatial layout/format, which does not use words to describe location
of apps, controls, text, etc. Lastly, maps, graphs, and chartsshave
been made accessible in tactile, auditory, and/or spatial way using a
variety of means, and the one that I think has a lot of promise and is
exciting, is on an iOS device. We need to not use what’s been
considered the original concept, but think different, and create
effective and efficient ways of solving complex issues.

Kevin

On 11/8/11, Noble,Stephen L. <steve.noble at louisville.edu> wrote:
> Of course, one has to remember that the original concept behind MathPlayer
> was to turn math into speech so that screen reader applications (like JAWS)
> could read the math. The only way to turn math symbols into speech is to use
> words to convey that information. The only way to provide any additional
> layout or spatial information in speech is to use more words, for instance
> to announce the column and row location of a data element in a table...but
> again, all of that is done with words.
>
> Now, I will add that getting Nemeth support in refreshable braille out of
> MathML content has been "potentially" possible for many years, but the
> vendors who implement this technology have not bothered to invest the
> development time into their applications. If you want to see this happen,
> then lots of customers need to start complaining to places like Freedom
> Scientific (just an example since I mentioned JAWS) and tell them this is a
> priority. Otherwise, we'll still be having this same discussion five years
> from now.
>
> --Steve Noble
> steve.noble at louisville.edu
> 502-969-3088
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Chao
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 5:06 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MathJax Accessibility: math/STEM universal
> access/design
>
> Will MathPlayer 3 address the fact that all the math/STEM symbols/operators
> in 2.2 are converted into words, all spatial layout/structure/relations not
> being conveyed due to all information being converted into words, and there
> not being proper braille support (Nemeth)? Each and every one of these three
> key points are absolutely essential and critical to proper and truly
> accessible math/STEM readable content.
>
> I think that the work that Design Science, MathPlayer has done is a great
> start, but it doesn't provide a great experience, especially when it comes
> to being able to have an overview, drill down, and navigate/review. Not to
> also mention the inability to create/edit work in an integrated/imbedded
> way, such as homework, notes, and exams within the same environment that is
> already being used by education or work, such as a LMS/CMS of some kind.
> Also, the very restrictive system requirement of MathPlayer 2.2 plug-in only
> working with IE, what about Windows Firefox and Chrome or Mac Safari,
> Webkit, Chrome, etc.? This is where I think it would be great if MathJax has
> a standard specifying accessibility, which would work across platforms and
> browsers.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
>
> On 11/6/11, Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com> wrote:
>> MathJax works with MathPlayer to provide accessibility if you use IE.
>> There are some issues with MathJax and MathPlayer 2 if people didn't
>> configure their site to allow users to choose the renderer, but most
>> of those have been resolved with MathPlayer 3 (which might be
>> available next week).
>>
>> MathJax is a great solution which has already greatly increased the
>> amount of math that is accessible on the web.  Design Science is one
>> of the founding sponsers for MathJax work and we are working to make
>> sure the math rendered by it is accessible.
>>
>>  Neil Soiffer
>> Senior Scientist
>> Design Science, Inc.
>> www.dessci.com
>> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor
>> ~
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Kevin Chao <kevinchao89 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> MathJax is an open source JavaScript display engine for mathematics
>>> that works in all modern browsers.
>>> No more setup for readers. No more browser plugins. No more font
>>> installations... It just works.
>>> Accept following sources:
>>> LaTeX
>>> MathML
>>>
>>> http://www.mathjax.org/
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, there's not an MathJax accessibility API, which web
>>> browsers can use, which will allow assistive technologies, such as
>>> screen readers to work with beautiful math in all browsers. As far as
>>> I'm aware, there's no MathJax accessibility in Windows IE9/8, Chrome
>>> 15-17, Firefox 4-10; Mac OS X Safari, Webkit, Lightning, and/or
>>> Chrome; iOS 5 Safari; Android Mobile Accessibility Web browser or
>>> Ideal Web Reader.
>>>
>>> MathJax has the potential to make math/STEM accessibility truly
>>> universal and not speicific to MathML and IE8, MathPlayer 2.2, and
>>> JAWS 12.
>>>
>>> It has the potential to completely revolutionize math/STEM
>>> accessibility for all, but I would like to know what's the best
>>> approach in MathJax including universal access/design, and it working
>>> for all? Perhaps, it should be a community effort, where we all
>>> contact MathJax, create a petition, or some other campaign effort?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
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>>
>
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