[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Tue Nov 15 14:33:33 UTC 2011

Thanks, I will look into those books, or rather ask my blind student, who
participates in this list, to look into them and provide an assessment.

The official textbook was chosen before I was assigned to teach the course
and typically 6 to 8 months are required to get approval for a textbook
change at the college where I teach. The textbook is Physics for Game
Developers by David M. Bourge. I imagine my student can get a pdf version,
or possibly get access to an online version. However, as is typical, it is
full of pictures and equations that work well for sighted students but
don't work well for blind students.

Thanks for the input.
Dick Baldwin

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:

> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows. This is
> needed so the student will know to use the right and left arrow keys to
> step through the matrix elements. When the down arrow is used to enter the
> matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no acknowledgement of the bars (or
> semicolons either);
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I would want
>> it
>> but again I like using just a text editor and this way seems to work great
>> with jaws for me. This is just a simple page with a 3 by 3 matrix.  It has
>> the bars because <pre> elements don't get converted.
>>
>> <html>
>> <body>
>>  <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>>  <pre>
>>  3 | 9 | 8
>>  4 | 6 | 5
>>  6 | 4 | 8
>>      </pre>
>> </body>
>> </html
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>
>> Thanks Ken,
>>
>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I could
>> style
>> the matrices as <pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML tables. That should
>> make
>> them accessible to a screen reader and also make them look reasonable for
>> the sighted students in the course. Maybe there is a unicode character
>> that
>> could be used to create the vertical bars that typically appear on printed
>> matrices. If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those
>> characters.
>>
>> Other suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> > When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text editor
>> > and an old laptop calculator called Xplore.  The calculator still
>> > exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I would just
>> > type the matrix out in a text editor and space the columns.  That way
>> > when I  wanted two add two rows I would block one row and put it under
>> > the other and move things around.  I know that is not pretty but it
>> > gave me a good feel of how the sighted folks did it.  I got to the
>> > point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in my head only writing
>> > down values as I multiplied them or if I was trying to solve them.  It
>> > would take a bit of work to get back to that point now but all I am
>> > saying is don't give up on the simple text editor  it sometimes is
>> > nice to be able to easily see all the numbers in a row at a time.
>> >
>> > Ken
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>> >
>> > Hi Pranav,
>> >
>> > Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used for
>> > doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking for is the
>> > most accessible display format. For example, MathML can be used to
>> > create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page. Beautiful, that is,
>> > for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes silent when it encounters
>> > MathML in a web page. I don't have a copy of Jaws, so I don't know how
>> > it reacts to MathML in a web page.
>> >
>> > Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>> > writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>> > equations, on the other hand typically require three or four lines. I
>> > wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a way
>> > that a blind student can make sense of them.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Dick Baldwin
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Richard,
>> > >
>> > > I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a spreadsheet
>> > > was the solution I chose. I could add rows and columns without a
>> > > fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the tool to go for in
>> > > windows. No special tool is required.
>> > >
>> > > On 11/15/11, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com> wrote:
>> > > > I will be teaching the following course for the first time in the
>> > > > Spring
>> > > > 2012 semester.
>> > > >
>> > > > GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development (3-3-1)
>> > > > Presents applications of mathematics and science in game and
>> > > > simulation programming. Includes the utilization of matrix and
>> > > > vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian principles in games
>> > > > and simulations. Also
>> > > covers
>> > > > code optimization.
>> > > >
>> > > > The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even if
>> > > > there
>> > > are
>> > > > accessible textbooks at the college level covering these topics
>> > > > (which I
>> > > > doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
>> > > >
>> > > > I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
>> > > > blind students who study mathematics regarding the most accessible
>> > > > formats for presenting matrix equations.
>> > > >
>> > > > If special reader software is required (beyond a standard screen
>> > > reader), I
>> > > > need to know that also.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks in advance.
>> > > > Dick Baldwin
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> > > > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> > > > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>> > > > College
>> > > > (512) 223-4758
>> > > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> > > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Blindmath mailing list
>> > > > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > > > for
>> > > > Blindmath:
>> > > >
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/pranav.lal%40
>> > > gm
>> > > ail.com
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Blindmath mailing list
>> > > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > > for
>> > > Blindmath:
>> > >
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dic
>> > > kb
>> > > aldwin.com
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >
>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>> > (512) 223-4758
>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> >
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinks
>> > oft.co
>> > m
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> >
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickb
>> > aldwin.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co
>> m<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.com>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>

-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/