[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Tue Nov 15 14:38:57 UTC 2011

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the input on Unicode characters and Jaws.

Also, you wrote "Oh and while I am an old old game coder I would love to
sit in on this class
are you web casting it?"

Sorry, no web casts. However, I may publish the course notes on my cnx.orgsite (
http://cnx.org/content/col11294/latest/) after the course ends and I have
an opportunity to polish them a bit.

Dick Baldwin

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:

> Thanks, I will look into those books, or rather ask my blind student, who
> participates in this list, to look into them and provide an assessment.
>
> The official textbook was chosen before I was assigned to teach the course
> and typically 6 to 8 months are required to get approval for a textbook
> change at the college where I teach. The textbook is Physics for Game
> Developers by David M. Bourge. I imagine my student can get a pdf version,
> or possibly get access to an online version. However, as is typical, it is
> full of pictures and equations that work well for sighted students but
> don't work well for blind students.
>
> Thanks for the input.
> Dick Baldwin
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:
>
>> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
>> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows. This is
>> needed so the student will know to use the right and left arrow keys to
>> step through the matrix elements. When the down arrow is used to enter the
>> matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no acknowledgement of the bars (or
>> semicolons either);
>>
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I would
>>> want it
>>> but again I like using just a text editor and this way seems to work
>>> great
>>> with jaws for me. This is just a simple page with a 3 by 3 matrix.  It
>>> has
>>> the bars because <pre> elements don't get converted.
>>>
>>> <html>
>>> <body>
>>>  <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>>>  <pre>
>>>  3 | 9 | 8
>>>  4 | 6 | 5
>>>  6 | 4 | 8
>>>      </pre>
>>> </body>
>>> </html
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>
>>> Thanks Ken,
>>>
>>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I could
>>> style
>>> the matrices as <pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML tables. That should
>>> make
>>> them accessible to a screen reader and also make them look reasonable for
>>> the sighted students in the course. Maybe there is a unicode character
>>> that
>>> could be used to create the vertical bars that typically appear on
>>> printed
>>> matrices. If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those
>>> characters.
>>>
>>> Other suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text editor
>>> > and an old laptop calculator called Xplore.  The calculator still
>>> > exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I would just
>>> > type the matrix out in a text editor and space the columns.  That way
>>> > when I  wanted two add two rows I would block one row and put it under
>>> > the other and move things around.  I know that is not pretty but it
>>> > gave me a good feel of how the sighted folks did it.  I got to the
>>> > point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in my head only writing
>>> > down values as I multiplied them or if I was trying to solve them.  It
>>> > would take a bit of work to get back to that point now but all I am
>>> > saying is don't give up on the simple text editor  it sometimes is
>>> > nice to be able to easily see all the numbers in a row at a time.
>>> >
>>> > Ken
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> > On
>>> > Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>> >
>>> > Hi Pranav,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used for
>>> > doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking for is the
>>> > most accessible display format. For example, MathML can be used to
>>> > create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page. Beautiful, that is,
>>> > for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes silent when it encounters
>>> > MathML in a web page. I don't have a copy of Jaws, so I don't know how
>>> > it reacts to MathML in a web page.
>>> >
>>> > Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>>> > writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>>> > equations, on the other hand typically require three or four lines. I
>>> > wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a way
>>> > that a blind student can make sense of them.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Dick Baldwin
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hi Richard,
>>> > >
>>> > > I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a spreadsheet
>>> > > was the solution I chose. I could add rows and columns without a
>>> > > fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the tool to go for in
>>> > > windows. No special tool is required.
>>> > >
>>> > > On 11/15/11, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com> wrote:
>>> > > > I will be teaching the following course for the first time in the
>>> > > > Spring
>>> > > > 2012 semester.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development (3-3-1)
>>> > > > Presents applications of mathematics and science in game and
>>> > > > simulation programming. Includes the utilization of matrix and
>>> > > > vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian principles in games
>>> > > > and simulations. Also
>>> > > covers
>>> > > > code optimization.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even if
>>> > > > there
>>> > > are
>>> > > > accessible textbooks at the college level covering these topics
>>> > > > (which I
>>> > > > doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
>>> > > > blind students who study mathematics regarding the most accessible
>>> > > > formats for presenting matrix equations.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > If special reader software is required (beyond a standard screen
>>> > > reader), I
>>> > > > need to know that also.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Thanks in advance.
>>> > > > Dick Baldwin
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> > > > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> > > > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> > > > College
>>> > > > (512) 223-4758
>>> > > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> > > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>> > > ail.com
>>> > > >
>>> > >
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>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >
>>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>>> > (512) 223-4758
>>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>

-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/