[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Tue Nov 15 14:47:10 UTC 2011

Ken,

You wrote: "Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?"

I'm a novice at using NVDA.

How do I make that setting?

Thanks,
Dick Baldwin

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:

>
> Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?
>
> ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:26 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>
> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows. This is
> needed so the student will know to use the right and left arrow keys to
> step
> through the matrix elements. When the down arrow is used to enter the
> matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no acknowledgement of the bars (or
> semicolons either);
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I would
> > want it but again I like using just a text editor and this way seems
> > to work great with jaws for me. This is just a simple page with a 3 by
> > 3 matrix.  It has the bars because <pre> elements don't get converted.
> >
> > <html>
> > <body>
> >  <H1>A Matrix</h1>
> >  <pre>
> >  3 | 9 | 8
> >  4 | 6 | 5
> >  6 | 4 | 8
> >      </pre>
> > </body>
> > </html
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >
> > Thanks Ken,
> >
> > So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I could
> > style the matrices as <pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML tables. That
> > should make them accessible to a screen reader and also make them look
> > reasonable for the sighted students in the course. Maybe there is a
> > unicode character that could be used to create the vertical bars that
> > typically appear on printed matrices. If so, I wonder how a screen
> > reader would treat those characters.
> >
> > Other suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dick Baldwin
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text
> > > editor and an old laptop calculator called Xplore.  The calculator
> > > still exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I would
> > > just type the matrix out in a text editor and space the columns.
> > > That way when I  wanted two add two rows I would block one row and
> > > put it under the other and move things around.  I know that is not
> > > pretty but it gave me a good feel of how the sighted folks did it.
> > > I got to the point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in my
> > > head only writing down values as I multiplied them or if I was
> > > trying to solve them.  It would take a bit of work to get back to
> > > that point now but all I am saying is don't give up on the simple
> > > text editor  it sometimes is nice to be able to easily see all the
> numbers in a row at a time.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
> > > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> > >
> > > Hi Pranav,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used for
> > > doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking for is
> > > the most accessible display format. For example, MathML can be used
> > > to create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page. Beautiful,
> > > that is, for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes silent when it
> > > encounters MathML in a web page. I don't have a copy of Jaws, so I
> > > don't know how it reacts to MathML in a web page.
> > >
> > > Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
> > > writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
> > > equations, on the other hand typically require three or four lines.
> > > I wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a way
> > > that a blind student can make sense of them.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dick Baldwin
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Richard,
> > > >
> > > > I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a
> > > > spreadsheet was the solution I chose. I could add rows and columns
> > > > without a fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the tool to go
> > > > for in windows. No special tool is required.
> > > >
> > > > On 11/15/11, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com> wrote:
> > > > > I will be teaching the following course for the first time in
> > > > > the Spring
> > > > > 2012 semester.
> > > > >
> > > > > GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development
> > > > > (3-3-1) Presents applications of mathematics and science in game
> > > > > and simulation programming. Includes the utilization of matrix
> > > > > and vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian principles in
> > > > > games and simulations. Also
> > > > covers
> > > > > code optimization.
> > > > >
> > > > > The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even if
> > > > > there
> > > > are
> > > > > accessible textbooks at the college level covering these topics
> > > > > (which I
> > > > > doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
> > > > >
> > > > > I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
> > > > > blind students who study mathematics regarding the most
> > > > > accessible formats for presenting matrix equations.
> > > > >
> > > > > If special reader software is required (beyond a standard screen
> > > > reader), I
> > > > > need to know that also.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > Dick Baldwin
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line Java
> > > > > Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> > > > > College
> > > > > (512) 223-4758
> > > > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > > > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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> > > > gm
> > > > ail.com
> > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > >
> > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> > > College
> > > (512) 223-4758
> > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >
> > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> > (512) 223-4758
> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/