[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
Ken Perry
kperry at blinksoft.com
Tue Nov 15 14:50:23 UTC 2011
Oh I am the old game coder not Ben but thanks, I also checked out the books
web site and there is a lot of good stuff there even for the blind. I will
have to see how many of the slides work with jaws.
http://www.essentialmath.com/
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:39 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
Hi Ben,
Thanks for the input on Unicode characters and Jaws.
Also, you wrote "Oh and while I am an old old game coder I would love to sit
in on this class are you web casting it?"
Sorry, no web casts. However, I may publish the course notes on my
cnx.orgsite (
http://cnx.org/content/col11294/latest/) after the course ends and I have an
opportunity to polish them a bit.
Dick Baldwin
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Richard Baldwin
<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:
> Thanks, I will look into those books, or rather ask my blind student,
> who participates in this list, to look into them and provide an
assessment.
>
> The official textbook was chosen before I was assigned to teach the
> course and typically 6 to 8 months are required to get approval for a
> textbook change at the college where I teach. The textbook is Physics
> for Game Developers by David M. Bourge. I imagine my student can get a
> pdf version, or possibly get access to an online version. However, as
> is typical, it is full of pictures and equations that work well for
> sighted students but don't work well for blind students.
>
> Thanks for the input.
> Dick Baldwin
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Richard Baldwin
<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:
>
>> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
>> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows.
>> This is needed so the student will know to use the right and left
>> arrow keys to step through the matrix elements. When the down arrow
>> is used to enter the matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no
>> acknowledgement of the bars (or semicolons either);
>>
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I would
>>> want it but again I like using just a text editor and this way seems
>>> to work great with jaws for me. This is just a simple page with a 3
>>> by 3 matrix. It has the bars because <pre> elements don't get
>>> converted.
>>>
>>> <html>
>>> <body>
>>> <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>>> <pre>
>>> 3 | 9 | 8
>>> 4 | 6 | 5
>>> 6 | 4 | 8
>>> </pre>
>>> </body>
>>> </html
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>
>>> Thanks Ken,
>>>
>>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I
>>> could style the matrices as <pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML
>>> tables. That should make them accessible to a screen reader and also
>>> make them look reasonable for the sighted students in the course.
>>> Maybe there is a unicode character that could be used to create the
>>> vertical bars that typically appear on printed matrices. If so, I
>>> wonder how a screen reader would treat those characters.
>>>
>>> Other suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text
>>> > editor and an old laptop calculator called Xplore. The calculator
>>> > still exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I
>>> > would just type the matrix out in a text editor and space the
>>> > columns. That way when I wanted two add two rows I would block
>>> > one row and put it under the other and move things around. I know
>>> > that is not pretty but it gave me a good feel of how the sighted
>>> > folks did it. I got to the point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4
>>> > matrixes in my head only writing down values as I multiplied them
>>> > or if I was trying to solve them. It would take a bit of work to
>>> > get back to that point now but all I am saying is don't give up on
>>> > the simple text editor it sometimes is nice to be able to easily see
all the numbers in a row at a time.
>>> >
>>> > Ken
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> > [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> > On
>>> > Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>> >
>>> > Hi Pranav,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used
>>> > for doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking
>>> > for is the most accessible display format. For example, MathML can
>>> > be used to create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page.
>>> > Beautiful, that is, for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes
>>> > silent when it encounters MathML in a web page. I don't have a
>>> > copy of Jaws, so I don't know how it reacts to MathML in a web page.
>>> >
>>> > Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>>> > writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>>> > equations, on the other hand typically require three or four
>>> > lines. I wondering how to configure those three or four lines in
>>> > such a way that a blind student can make sense of them.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Dick Baldwin
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hi Richard,
>>> > >
>>> > > I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a
>>> > > spreadsheet was the solution I chose. I could add rows and
>>> > > columns without a fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the
>>> > > tool to go for in windows. No special tool is required.
>>> > >
>>> > > On 11/15/11, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com> wrote:
>>> > > > I will be teaching the following course for the first time in
>>> > > > the Spring
>>> > > > 2012 semester.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development
>>> > > > (3-3-1) Presents applications of mathematics and science in
>>> > > > game and simulation programming. Includes the utilization of
>>> > > > matrix and vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian
>>> > > > principles in games and simulations. Also
>>> > > covers
>>> > > > code optimization.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even
>>> > > > if there
>>> > > are
>>> > > > accessible textbooks at the college level covering these
>>> > > > topics (which I
>>> > > > doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
>>> > > > blind students who study mathematics regarding the most
>>> > > > accessible formats for presenting matrix equations.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > If special reader software is required (beyond a standard
>>> > > > screen
>>> > > reader), I
>>> > > > need to know that also.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Thanks in advance.
>>> > > > Dick Baldwin
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line
>>> > > > Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> > > > College
>>> > > > (512) 223-4758
>>> > > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> > > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>> > >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >
>>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> > College
>>> > (512) 223-4758
>>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>
--
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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