[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Tue Nov 15 19:51:55 UTC 2011

It seems to me the HTML format suffers from the inability to copy and 
paste into Matlab.

For reference, I've created a simple web-page which I believe 
showcases the 3 alternatives proposed:  the HTML table format, the 
Matlab format, and the vertical bar format.

http://www.opticinspiration.org/matrix.html

I haven't done much work with matrices or Matlab but it seems to me 
that the version that is most easily cut and paste from the web-page 
into Matlab is the preferable one.

Ben

At 01:37 PM 11/15/2011, you wrote:
>that's what i meant to say.  smile.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gardner" <john.gardner at orst.edu>
>To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" 
><blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:57 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>
>
>>Dick, I think this would be a poor choice.  Personally I believe that for
>>anything at all complicated, most users will need to be able to navigate by
>>cells both horizontally and vertically.  An html table is ideal, because one
>>can do that with any screen reader.
>>
>>And those who want a text file can just copy that table and copty into
>>notepad.  Presto, Ken has his wish.
>>John
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:50 AM
>>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>
>>I am assuming that the blind student can scroll up and down through the
>>rows using the up and down arrow keys, encountering only three values with
>>each press of the arrow key.
>>
>>Another alternative would be to put all nine values for a 3x3 matrix on the
>>same line with some sort of delimiter to indicate that each group of 3
>>values represents a row.
>>
>>However, there is a problem with this also. Despite the need to accommodate
>>blind students in the course, I must also make certain that I accommodate
>>the needs of sighted students. Sighted students are accustomed to seeing
>>matrices written in rows and columns and all of the textbooks present
>>matrices in that format. I must use a format that works for both the blind
>>students and the sighted students, which is one of the reasons that I like
>>this approach. It should work for blind students and it looks nominally
>>correct for sighted students. Not ideal for either but adequate for both.
>>
>>Dick Baldwin
>>
>>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The good part is if you have it in this kind of form and the student has
>>>another form he or she likes better its not hard to reparse this.
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>On
>>>Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:21 PM
>>>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>
>>>Great! This makes it work. Now when I tab into the first row of the
>>matrix,
>>>I hear three bar nine bar eight. Given an announcement that a matrix
>>>follows, a blind student should be able to mentally separate the columns
>>>and
>>>the rows without having to space through the characters individually.
>>>
>>>This scheme, or something very similar is what I will probably use.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Icewolf <icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello,
>>> > I don't have my copy of NVDA up at the moment.  To change the
>>> > punctuation
>>> > level:
>>> > 1.  From the desktop press NVDA(insert key) plus n.  This will get you
>>> > into NVDA's settings.
>>> > 2.  Arrow down to preferences, then arrow right into the menu.
>>> > 3.  Arrow down till you hear, or see, the voice settings option and
>>> > then press enter.
>>> > 4.  Once in this dialog box tab around till you see or hear the
>>> > punctuation option.  This will be a combo box.
>>> > 5.  Arrow up and down through the choices.  I believe they are none,
>>> > some, most, and all.
>>> > 6.  Choose all then tab to ok and press enter.
>>> > There might be a way to do this on the fly without having to go into
>>> > the preferences menu, but I am still a novice at NVDA and don't know it
>>>yet.
>>> > Hope this helps,
>>> > Greg W.
>>> >
>>> > Yesterday is forever gone, tomorrow may never come, today is the day
>>> > of all days.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11/15/2011 9:47 AM, Richard Baldwin wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Ken,
>>> >>
>>> >> You wrote: "Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?"
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm a novice at using NVDA.
>>> >>
>>> >> How do I make that setting?
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Dick Baldwin
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>  Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ken
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**
>>> >> >>> nfbnet.org <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard
>>> >>> Baldwin
>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:26 AM
>>> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
>>> >>> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows.
>>> >>> This is needed so the student will know to use the right and left
>>> >>> arrow keys to step through the matrix elements. When the down arrow
>>> >>> is used to enter the matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no
>>> >>> acknowledgement of the bars (or semicolons either);
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Dick Baldwin
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I
>>> >>> would
>>> >>>> want it but again I like using just a text editor and this way
>>> >>>> seems to work great with jaws for me. This is just a simple page
>>> >>>> with a 3 by
>>> >>>> 3 matrix.  It has the bars because<pre>  elements don't get
>>converted.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> <html>
>>> >>>> <body>
>>> >>>>  <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>>> >>>>  <pre>
>>> >>>>  3 | 9 | 8
>>> >>>>  4 | 6 | 5
>>> >>>>  6 | 4 | 8
>>> >>>>      </pre>
>>> >>>> </body>
>>> >>>> </html
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
>>> >>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks Ken,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I
>>> >>>> could style the matrices as<pre>xx</pre>  and put them in XHTML
>>> >>>> tables. That should make them accessible to a screen reader and
>>> >>>> also make them look reasonable for the sighted students in the
>>> >>>> course. Maybe there is a unicode character that could be used to
>>> >>>> create the vertical bars that typically appear on printed matrices.
>>> >>>> If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those characters.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Other suggestions are welcome.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>> Dick Baldwin
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>> >>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>  When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text
>>> >>>>> editor and an old laptop calculator called Xplore.  The calculator
>>> >>>>> still exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I
>>> >>>>> would just type the matrix out in a text editor and space the
>>>columns.
>>> >>>>> That way when I  wanted two add two rows I would block one row and
>>> >>>>> put it under the other and move things around.  I know that is not
>>> >>>>> pretty but it gave me a good feel of how the sighted folks did it.
>>> >>>>> I got to the point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in my
>>> >>>>> head only writing down values as I multiplied them or if I was
>>> >>>>> trying to solve them.  It would take a bit of work to get back to
>>> >>>>> that point now but all I am saying is don't give up on the simple
>>> >>>>> text editor  it sometimes is nice to be able to easily see all the
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> numbers in a row at a time.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Ken
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>>> >>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hi Pranav,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used
>>> >>>>> for doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking
>>> >>>>> for is the most accessible display format. For example, MathML can
>>> >>>>> be used to create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page.
>>> >>>>> Beautiful, that is, for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes
>>> >>>>> silent when it encounters MathML in a web page. I don't have a
>>> >>>>> copy of Jaws, so I don't know how it reacts to MathML in a 
>>> web >>>>> page.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>>> >>>>> writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>>> >>>>> equations, on the other hand typically require three or four lines.
>>> >>>>> I wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a
>>> >>>>> way that a blind student can make sense of them.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal<pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Hi Richard,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a
>>> >>>>>> spreadsheet was the solution I chose. I could add rows and
>>> >>>>>> columns without a fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the
>>> >>>>>> tool to go for in windows. No special tool is required.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On 11/15/11, Richard
>>> >>>>>> Baldwin<baldwin at dickbaldwin.**com<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>>
>>> >>>>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I will be teaching the following course for the first time in
>>> >>>>>>> the Spring
>>> >>>>>>> 2012 semester.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development
>>> >>>>>>> (3-3-1) Presents applications of mathematics and science in game
>>> >>>>>>> and simulation programming. Includes the utilization of matrix
>>> >>>>>>> and vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian principles in
>>> >>>>>>> games and simulations. Also
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> covers
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> code optimization.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even if
>>> >>>>>>> there
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> are
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> accessible textbooks at the college level covering these topics
>>> >>>>>>> (which I
>>> >>>>>>> doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
>>> >>>>>>> blind students who study mathematics regarding the most
>>> >>>>>>> accessible formats for presenting matrix equations.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> If special reader software is required (beyond a standard screen
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> reader), I
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> need to know that also.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> >>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line Java
>>> >>>>>>> Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> >>>>>>> College
>>> >>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> >>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/baldw
>>> >>>>>>> in/> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http:/
>>> >>>>>>> /nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >>>>>>> info for
>>> >>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>>>> pranav.lal%
>>> >>>>>> 40
>>> >>>>>> gm
>>> >>>>>> ail.com
>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://
>>> >>>>>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>>>> for
>>> >>>>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>>>> 
>>> baldwin%40d<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.or> 
>>>  > >>>>>> g/baldwin%40d>
>>> >>>>>> ic
>>> >>>>>> kb
>>> >>>>>> aldwin.com
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> >>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> >>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> >>>>> College
>>> >>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> >>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>> >>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://n
>>> >>>>> fbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>>> for
>>> >>>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>>> 
>>> kperry%40blin<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.o 
>>>  >> >>>>> rg/kperry%40blin>
>>> >>>>> ks
>>> >>>>> oft.co
>>> >>>>> m
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://n
>>> >>>>> fbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>>> for
>>> >>>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>>> 
>>> baldwin%40dic<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.o 
>>>  >> >>>>> rg/baldwin%40dic>
>>> >>>>> kb
>>> >>>>> aldwin.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> >>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> >>>> College
>>> >>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> >>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>> >>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nf
>>> >>>> bnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>> for
>>> >>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>> 
>>> kperry%40blinks<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet 
>>> .>> >>>> org/kperry%40blinks>
>>> >>>> oft.co
>>> >>>> m
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nf
>>> >>>> bnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>> for
>>> >>>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>>> 
>>> baldwin%40dickb<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet 
>>> .>> >>>> org/baldwin%40dickb>
>>> >>>> aldwin.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> >>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>> >>> College
>>> >>> (512) 223-4758
>>> >>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> >>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>> >>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfb
>>> >>> net.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>> 
>>> kperry%40blinksoft.co<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nf>>  
>>>  >>> bnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co>
>>> >>> m
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> >>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfb
>>> >>> net.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> Blindmath:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> >>> 
>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmat>>  
>>>  >>> h_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > ______________________________**_________________
>>> > Blindmath mailing list
>>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbne
>>> > t.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > Blindmath:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>> > 
>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_>>  
>>>  > nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>>Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>>>(512) 223-4758
>>>mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Blindmath mailing list
>>>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>Blindmath:
>>>
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co
>>>m
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Blindmath mailing list
>>>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>Blindmath:
>>>
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin
>>.com
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>>Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>Austin Community College
>>(512) 223-4758
>>mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>_______________________________________________
>>Blindmath mailing list
>>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>Blindmath:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40orst.e
>>du
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Blindmath mailing list
>>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for Blindmath:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/davide%40soundandscience.com
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.454 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4017 - Release Date: 
>11/14/11 19:34:00
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blindmath mailing list
>Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Blindmath:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brh%40opticinspiration.org