[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
Richard Baldwin
baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
Wed Nov 16 21:49:10 UTC 2011
I have no problem with the visual appeal of "--" in a blank cell, provided
it can't be misinterpreted as a minus sign for the value in the next cell.
Of course, if it isn't needed, I would just as soon omit it.
By the way, I appreciate that someone pointed out in an earlier post that
the table needs to have a one-pixel (or presumably wider) border to avoid
some kind of a screen reader problem. I will try to remember that.
I also have another question. In an earlier post, I saw that someone had
created a sample table with the word class associated with the row and data
tags. I have probably created and published 500 to 1000 tables with simple
tags similar to the following with no problems for sighted users:
<table>
<tr>
<td>data data data</td>
</tr>
</table>
Does the class thing provide information that is useful to a screen reader?
Thanks,
Dick Baldwin
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> My worry is that I am not sure that screen readers all necessarily
> announce black cells, they may simply skipover them to the next
> non-blank cell. If this isn't the case for any screen reader, there is
> no worry. If there is, this is a huge problem, when you need to be
> absolutely sure which cells in a matrix are blank.
> Also I thought that entering, say a "--" would look visually appealing
> enough, thogh I don't know this.
> That is the source of my point. If I am working with a 4 by 4 matrix
> with blanks in it, I want to be sure that it is a 4 by 4 set of cells
> and I can identify the contents of each, even if it is blank.
>
>
> On 11/16/11, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> wrote:
> > I think the main point missed here is that NVDA can do cell navigation,
> OK
> > may be not quite as nice (in some peoples' minds) but still perfectly
> > accessible. I am sure if it became such an issue someone would feel
> pushed
> > enough to add it to opensource products like NVDA and then that might
> push
> > the commercial offerings to catch up as they would be lacking.
> >
> > Michael Whapples
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram at nc.rr.com>
> > To: <john.gardner at orst.edu>; "'Blind Math list for those interested in
> > mathematics'" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >
> >
> >> That's cell navigation, no? in other words, that read 2, 5, 8 if you
> were
> >> navigating down a keypad, instead of reading, 1,2,3:
> >> 4,5,6: 7,8,9.
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >> Sina
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> ]
> >> On Behalf Of John Gardner
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:39 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>
> >> Hmmm, it is news to me. I use CTRL-ALT arrows to navigate html tables
> >> with
> >> NVDA all the time. I know the NVDA folks are developing richer table
> >> navigation, but this row/column navigation method works perfectly well.
> I
> >> actually prefer NVDA for this purpose and lots of other web tasks,
> >> particularly filling out forms. It is really stable compared to the
> other
> >> screen readers.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> ]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:51 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>
> >> I just confirmed this. NVDA does not currently have row/column reading,
> >> but
> >> I'll be requesting this, today.
> >>
> >> I'm discussing the matter with some folks on twitter. *glances at
> previous
> >> statement, and shakes head* never thought I'd say that,
> >> before.
> >>
> >> Ken, thanks again for the heads up.
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >> Sina
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> ]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Ken Perry
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:40 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>
> >>
> >> No what I mean is a way to read the entire row for example 7 8 9 NVDA
> >> doesn't seem to have that feature as of yet. In jaws they use
> Microsoft
> >> key , for rows and Microsoft key . for columns It is just an easy way
> to
> >> read the whole set of numbers and. The cell navigation is a good as
> well
> >> which it seems all the screen readers handle that.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> ]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:30 PM
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>
> >> I am not sure what keys you mean.
> >>
> >> To navigate by cells in NVDA you use ctrl+alt+<cursors> to move around
> the
> >> table. Also users of the Mac and voiceover have this sort of navigation.
> >>
> >> If you mean a way of defining which order NVDA reads through a table
> when
> >> doing continuous reading, then there is no option for that. However I
> >> would
> >> imagine such a feature would be fairly simple to be added for those who
> >> are
> >> familiar with NVDA code.
> >>
> >> Michael Whapples
> >> On 15 Nov 2011, at 19:03, Ken Perry wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree with you in essence but when your designing something for a
> >>> class it would be nice if the students who can not afford jaws can
> >>> still get good access like I said I hope I am missing the keys for
> >>> NVDA but I haven't found them yet.
> >>>
> >>> Ken
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:35 PM
> >>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>
> >>> Wait a minute, NVDA doesn't have row/column reading?
> >>>
> >>> First off, let's not code to the lowest common denominator: we have
> >>> enough of that in this field.
> >>>
> >>> I can't speak to system access, but I will start contacting NVDA guys
> >>> right now about this issue.
> >>>
> >>> Ken, thanks for the heads up. I just assumed they had something so
> basic.
> >>>
> >>> Take care,
> >>> Sina
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:23 PM
> >>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree except for one problem. With jaws you can use windows , and
> >>> windows . to read the row or column in order but I have yet to find a
> >>> way to do that with either system access or nvda. My first method
> >>> allows you to read a whole row no matter the screen reader so I guess
> >>> it depends if you need to be able to read a whole row of the numbers.
> >>> Maybe you could add this feature fast enough to NVDA though, if it is
> >>> not there and I just have not found it.
> >>>
> >>> OH all the screen readers seem to read the table version of the matrix
> >>> fine by cells its just the row and column reading that I like with
> >>> Jaws if you have to use tables.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:05 PM
> >>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>
> >>> Where as a simple html table would be ideal for both.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:50 PM
> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>
> >>> I am assuming that the blind student can scroll up and down through
> >>> the rows using the up and down arrow keys, encountering only three
> >>> values with each press of the arrow key.
> >>>
> >>> Another alternative would be to put all nine values for a 3x3 matrix
> >>> on the same line with some sort of delimiter to indicate that each
> >>> group of 3 values represents a row.
> >>>
> >>> However, there is a problem with this also. Despite the need to
> >>> accommodate blind students in the course, I must also make certain
> >>> that I accommodate the needs of sighted students. Sighted students are
> >>> accustomed to seeing matrices written in rows and columns and all of
> >>> the textbooks present matrices in that format. I must use a format
> >>> that works for both the blind students and the sighted students, which
> >>> is one of the reasons that I like this approach. It should work for
> >>> blind students and it looks nominally correct for sighted students. Not
> >> ideal for either but adequate for both.
> >>>
> >>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The good part is if you have it in this kind of form and the student
> >>>> has another form he or she likes better its not hard to reparse this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >>>> On
> >>>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:21 PM
> >>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>>
> >>>> Great! This makes it work. Now when I tab into the first row of the
> >>>> matrix, I hear three bar nine bar eight. Given an announcement that a
> >>>> matrix follows, a blind student should be able to mentally separate
> >>>> the columns and the rows without having to space through the
> >>>> characters individually.
> >>>>
> >>>> This scheme, or something very similar is what I will probably use.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Icewolf <icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>> I don't have my copy of NVDA up at the moment. To change the
> >>>>> punctuation
> >>>>> level:
> >>>>> 1. From the desktop press NVDA(insert key) plus n. This will get
> >>>>> you into NVDA's settings.
> >>>>> 2. Arrow down to preferences, then arrow right into the menu.
> >>>>> 3. Arrow down till you hear, or see, the voice settings option and
> >>>>> then press enter.
> >>>>> 4. Once in this dialog box tab around till you see or hear the
> >>>>> punctuation option. This will be a combo box.
> >>>>> 5. Arrow up and down through the choices. I believe they are none,
> >>>>> some, most, and all.
> >>>>> 6. Choose all then tab to ok and press enter.
> >>>>> There might be a way to do this on the fly without having to go into
> >>>>> the preferences menu, but I am still a novice at NVDA and don't know
> >>>>> it
> >>>> yet.
> >>>>> Hope this helps,
> >>>>> Greg W.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yesterday is forever gone, tomorrow may never come, today is the day
> >>>>> of all days.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/15/2011 9:47 AM, Richard Baldwin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You wrote: "Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm a novice at using NVDA.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How do I make that setting?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ken
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**
> >>>>>>> nfbnet.org <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard
> >>>>>>> Baldwin
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:26 AM
> >>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
> >>>>>>> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows.
> >>>>>>> This is needed so the student will know to use the right and left
> >>>>>>> arrow keys to step through the matrix elements. When the down
> >>>>>>> arrow is used to enter the matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no
> >>>>>>> acknowledgement of the bars (or semicolons either);
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> want it but again I like using just a text editor and this way
> >>>>>>>> seems to work great with jaws for me. This is just a simple page
> >>>>>>>> with a 3 by
> >>>>>>>> 3 matrix. It has the bars because<pre> elements don't get
> >>> converted.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <html>
> >>>>>>>> <body>
> >>>>>>>> <H1>A Matrix</h1>
> >>>>>>>> <pre>
> >>>>>>>> 3 | 9 | 8
> >>>>>>>> 4 | 6 | 5
> >>>>>>>> 6 | 4 | 8
> >>>>>>>> </pre>
> >>>>>>>> </body>
> >>>>>>>> </html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks Ken,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I
> >>>>>>>> could style the matrices as<pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML
> >>>>>>>> tables. That should make them accessible to a screen reader and
> >>>>>>>> also make them look reasonable for the sighted students in the
> >>>>>>>> course. Maybe there is a unicode character that could be used to
> >>>>>>>> create the vertical bars that typically appear on printed
> matrices.
> >>>>>>>> If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those characters.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Other suggestions are welcome.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text
> >>>>>>>>> editor and an old laptop calculator called Xplore. The
> >>>>>>>>> calculator still exists but the newest version is not that
> >>>>>>>>> accessible. I would just type the matrix out in a text editor
> >>>>>>>>> and space the
> >>>> columns.
> >>>>>>>>> That way when I wanted two add two rows I would block one row
> >>>>>>>>> and put it under the other and move things around. I know that
> >>>>>>>>> is not pretty but it gave me a good feel of how the sighted
> >>>>>>>>> folks
> >>> did it.
> >>>>>>>>> I got to the point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in
> >>>>>>>>> my head only writing down values as I multiplied them or if I
> >>>>>>>>> was trying to solve them. It would take a bit of work to get
> >>>>>>>>> back to that point now but all I am saying is don't give up on
> >>>>>>>>> the simple text editor it sometimes is nice to be able to
> >>>>>>>>> easily see all the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> numbers in a row at a time.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ken
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Pranav,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used
> >>>>>>>>> for doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking
> >>>>>>>>> for is the most accessible display format. For example, MathML
> >>>>>>>>> can be used to create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page.
> >>>>>>>>> Beautiful, that is, for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes
> >>>>>>>>> silent when it encounters MathML in a web page. I don't have a
> >>>>>>>>> copy of Jaws, so I don't know how it reacts to MathML in a web
> >>>>>>>>> page.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
> >>>>>>>>> writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
> >>>>>>>>> equations, on the other hand typically require three or four
> lines.
> >>>>>>>>> I wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a
> >>>>>>>>> way that a blind student can make sense of them.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav
> >>>>>>>>> Lal<pranav.lal at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Richard,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a
> >>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet was the solution I chose. I could add rows and
> >>>>>>>>>> columns without a fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the
> >>>>>>>>>> tool to go for in windows. No special tool is required.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/15/11, Richard
> >>>>>>>>>> Baldwin<baldwin at dickbaldwin.**com<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I will be teaching the following course for the first time in
> >>>>>>>>>>> the Spring
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2012 semester.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development
> >>>>>>>>>>> (3-3-1) Presents applications of mathematics and science in
> >>>>>>>>>>> game and simulation programming. Includes the utilization of
> >>>>>>>>>>> matrix and vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian
> >>>>>>>>>>> principles in games and simulations. Also
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> covers
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> code optimization.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even
> >>>>>>>>>>> if there
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> accessible textbooks at the college level covering these
> >>>>>>>>>>> topics (which I
> >>>>>>>>>>> doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the
> course.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
> >>>>>>>>>>> blind students who study mathematics regarding the most
> >>>>>>>>>>> accessible formats for presenting matrix equations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If special reader software is required (beyond a standard
> >>>>>>>>>>> screen
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> reader), I
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> need to know that also.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line
> >>>>>>>>>>> Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> >>>>>>>>>>> College
> >>>>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
> >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/bal
> >>>>>>>>>>> dw in/> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>>>>>> pranav.lal%
> >>>>>>>>>> 40
> >>>>>>>>>> gm
> >>>>>>>>>> ail.com
> >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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> >>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>> g/baldwin%40d>
> >>>>>>>>>> ic
> >>>>>>>>>> kb
> >>>>>>>>>> aldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line Java
> >>>>>>>>> Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> >>>>>>>>> College
> >>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
> >>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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> >>>>>>>>> .o
> >>>>>>>>> rg/kperry%40blin>
> >>>>>>>>> ks
> >>>>>>>>> oft.co
> >>>>>>>>> m
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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> >>>>>>>>> .o
> >>>>>>>>> rg/baldwin%40dic>
> >>>>>>>>> kb
> >>>>>>>>> aldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line Java
> >>>>>>>> Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> >>>>>>>> College
> >>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
> >>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
> >>>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> >>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>>>> nf bnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
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> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>> kperry%40blinks<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.
> >>>>>>>> org/kperry%40blinks>
> >>>>>>>> oft.co
> >>>>>>>> m
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://
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> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>> baldwin%40dickb<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.
> >>>>>>>> org/baldwin%40dickb>
> >>>>>>>> aldwin.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> >>>>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> >>>>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
> >>>>>>> College
> >>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
> >>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
> >>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://n
> >>>>>>> fb net.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
> >>>>>>> kperry%40blinksoft.co<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_
> >>>>>>> nf
> >>>>>>> bnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co>
> >>>>>>> m
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://n
> >>>>>>> fb net.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
> >>>>>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindm
> >>>>>>> at h_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfb
> >>>>> ne t.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
> >>>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmat
> >>>>> h_ nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> >>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> >>>> (512) 223-4758
> >>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blink
> >>>> s
> >>>> oft.co
> >>>> m
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dick
> >>>> b
> >>>> aldwin.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> >>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >>>
> >>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> >>> (512) 223-4758
> >>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr
> >>> .com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinks
> >>> oft.co
> >>> m
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr
> >>> .com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinks
> >>> oft.co
> >>> m
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim
> >>> .com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co
> >> m
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40orst.e
> >> du
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature database 6636 (20111116) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> > database 6636 (20111116) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com
>
--
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com
Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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